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Old 06-09-2015, 07:32 AM   #401
Mig
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by sebkrol18 View Post
I am not so sure. Knowing "dead" cards help you play but it doesnt boost your winnings above EV line too much.

Suppose you have flushdraw on turn , and you know that your bot-friend doesn't have any cards in this suit , your chances for completing flush goes up from 22,5% to 25% . Now u can draw more often but it doesn't make you willing to go all-in because of that extra 2,5%.

So I think knowing dead cards may increase your winrate a lot but your winnings dont need to be much above All-in EV-line
If you had a 3-6% edge on every all in pots it's very significant. You would appear to run over ev for the naked eye when in fact you were just acting with your decision with 4-8 more dead cards.
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Old 06-09-2015, 07:32 AM   #402
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Thanks for your good work.
I think for the future of online poker it is actually important to pay guys like OP so that a constant investigation is possible and to put pressure on the rooms to provide higher security standarts.
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Old 06-09-2015, 07:35 AM   #403
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Pretty sure most of them didn't played plo late 2013 on stars. They are all new accounts and started to play on 100+ with a winrate 5bb/100+. Seems legit, not.

Emper0r92 is allways coming at the same time, never chats, allways sit out before he leaves the table (even if he is the last, no other reg is doing this). And he wasn't online today maybe the accounts are allready frozen, hopefully.
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Old 06-09-2015, 07:56 AM   #404
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

TYTY Stars your deep **** investigation !!! Thank you !
Emperor is still playing just sit in.. ***** ridic how this mtherfkin site handle this issue.
F.U.C.K you STARS and AMAYA
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Old 06-09-2015, 08:06 AM   #405
levinhostar
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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TYTY Stars your deep **** investigation !!! Thank you !
Emperor is still playing just sit in.. ***** ridic how this mtherfkin site handle this issue.
F.U.C.K you STARS and AMAYA
+1

just ridiculous that they didn't even freeze the accounts till the investigation is done. Probably they still can cash out and we will see exactly 0.00$ refund like in the past.
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Old 06-09-2015, 08:24 AM   #406
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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If you had a 3-6% edge on every all in pots it's very significant. You would appear to run over ev for the naked eye when in fact you were just acting with your decision with 4-8 more dead cards.
Not to mention that if you know your opponent can't have the nut and nutflush draw you can just bluff and have basically 100% fe; that's way more than a 3-6% edge. You could basically crush everything before you. Imagine the possibilities. You have bare QJ on KT4ss; you know one guy folded TT, and that the A and Q of the suit are dead. The guy pots into you, you can be 99% he has KK and just play your hand like you have a massive combodraw + you know it's unlikely the board pairs so you can call even more happily.
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Old 06-09-2015, 08:31 AM   #407
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

i would say that knowing 1 dead card in each pot is a huge advantage over time, having one friend or friendly bot at the table and knowing 4 dead cards - easy gane.

Last edited by bombonca; 06-09-2015 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 06-09-2015, 08:43 AM   #408
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Got sent a link to this after chatting to a buddy. Just want to thank the sleuths here for putting in the work they do on this type of thing.

I'm pretty suspicious on a couple of the mentioned accounts for sure. Much bigger deal than I would have thought, pretty sickening amount of money burned out of an already shrinking economy.
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Old 06-09-2015, 08:58 AM   #409
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Adding 2 more PLO botters for a combined 1M hands played. They are still playing everyday on Stars which raises the total count to 26 cheaters, 10 still active.



Oink deserves all the credit here.
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Old 06-09-2015, 09:20 AM   #410
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

@Taknikatel, bombonca and others discussion csharing in detail

PLEASE STOP THAT AND DELETE YOUR POSTS!

obviously it is right what you write but do not tell people how to do it, in which situations and why it works. you potentially encourage others to try it and you help botters to improve by writing your thoughts down here
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Old 06-09-2015, 09:23 AM   #411
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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@Taknikatel, bombonca and others discussion csharing in detail

PLEASE STOP THAT AND DELETE YOUR POSTS!

obviously it is right what you write but do not tell people how to do it, in which situations and why it works. you potentially encourage others to try it and you help botters to improve by writing it down here
If someone is smart enough to make a botring and cheat, he is smart enough that he uses this. It's not like they will get any new ideas here. Anyone with basic poker knowledge can figure out this would be the way to cheat. It's not like we are talking about anything revolutionary here.
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Old 06-09-2015, 09:31 AM   #412
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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+1

just ridiculous that they didn't even freeze the accounts till the investigation is done. Probably they still can cash out and we will see exactly 0.00$ refund like in the past.
Ya classic stars investigation. Hopefull they'll improve and we'll see at least some refund out of it given the sheer magnitude of this. I won't get my hopes up though
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Old 06-09-2015, 09:46 AM   #413
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

so, cliffs, there are bots beating 200plo, stars is doing a halfassed job combatting them (for obvious reasons)? correct?
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Old 06-09-2015, 09:51 AM   #414
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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so, cliffs, there are bots beating 200plo, stars is doing a halfassed job combatting them (for obvious reasons)? correct?

not sure about the obvious reasons, but pretty much yes. Can you give cliffs on obvious reasons?
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Old 06-09-2015, 09:59 AM   #415
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

^$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Old 06-09-2015, 10:12 AM   #416
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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this is ****ing just lol

Just want to say im 100% honest player
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Old 06-09-2015, 10:13 AM   #417
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

LOL on stars ,extreme stats similarities are not enough ....

Why can't they block suspected accounts and if they find evidence for being part of bot ring then confiscate their money.

If they didn't find enough evidence just tell them they have to cashout their money and stop playing at Pokerstars

It is not a court !! They dont need to prove anything they can make any decision.

On Sports Betting sites they dont have problem with telling you that they dont want you to play there .
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Old 06-09-2015, 10:14 AM   #418
Dandan160808
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by Taknikatel View Post
If someone is smart enough to make a botring and cheat, he is smart enough that he uses this. It's not like they will get any new ideas here. Anyone with basic poker knowledge can figure out this would be the way to cheat. It's not like we are talking about anything revolutionary here.

+1
It's nothing new at all and you are right. The information on cheating is googleable and to take all these cheating discussion sites down would be impossible. All you can do is if you are a major poker room is to have the staff like pokerstars software specialist trawling the net every so often to block these bots or card sharing plus whole card readers. It would be unrealistic to say any poker site could wipe every cheater off the site as the programmer who scans and blocks this stuff is only as good as his last bot find and someone out their will always be better at finding anyway to cheat.

I did computer security for some major UK banks about 5 years ago and it surprised me that Barclays Banks anti fraud software got targeted and it took me a few days to block all the holes. You will never keep 100% on top of fraud but programmers and hackers are using better tools and the Internet at their finger tips to scam all day long. It happens in all industries.
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Old 06-09-2015, 10:23 AM   #419
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Why is this not in nvg or internet forum? I mean, this is a huge deal (there are a lot of accusations about nlhe bots flying around at the moment too) and I would never have heard about this disgrace if it wasn't for someone else linking me here.
Important threads should be posted in Mid or High Stakes forum since these are the players affected.

If you post it in NVG it will turn into a anti-hud thread before page 2 by the microstakes or live players.
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Old 06-09-2015, 10:42 AM   #420
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by kaby View Post
so, cliffs, there are bots beating 200plo, stars is doing a halfassed job combatting them (for obvious reasons)? correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelnel View Post
not sure about the obvious reasons, but pretty much yes. Can you give cliffs on obvious reasons?
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Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
^$$$$$$$$$$$$
I dunno about this, it doesn't look pretty and I imagine the UK regulator is gonna be very interested. Time to short Amaya stock IMO.
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Old 06-09-2015, 10:45 AM   #421
potbet
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by Taknikatel View Post
If someone is smart enough to make a botring and cheat, he is smart enough that he uses this. It's not like they will get any new ideas here. Anyone with basic poker knowledge can figure out this would be the way to cheat. It's not like we are talking about anything revolutionary here.
of course it is not revolutionary. but where is the point of showing people how to do it? and it is unclear whether the botters had all the same ideas how to exploit csharing to the max (if the use csharing at all which has not been proven so far). furthermore you have lots of people reading that are not that smart or have not even thought about it.
everyone reading this stuff is a potential risk. just be smart and do not teach cheating here
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Old 06-09-2015, 10:47 AM   #422
juarnes
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

what about ' ashley jones ' account?
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Old 06-09-2015, 10:57 AM   #423
jas
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

I'm not surprised by the incompetence shown by pokerstars security team.


Experienced the same thing few years ago when several players were hacked for significant amounts of money. When I emailed them my concerns my claims were dismissed as being preposterous. And then a thread like this was made . communication increased but no refunds were given , even from money that was in the cheater's accounts

I agree with love2playu's post . Pokerstars security team needs an overhaul. New personnel.

Simona said he thinks they are made up of experienced poker players. I would confidently assume not.

It's ridiculous that pokerstars has yet to freeze the transfer and withdrawal functions of the accounts in question

I would recommend that everyone emails pokerstars voicing their concerns.

Pokerstars want to avoid bad publicity. If they feel that simply ignoring this and not taking any action against the accounts will limit the attention this gets then that's what they will do.

It's not too far off until this story reaches poker media outlets such as poker news.

Last edited by jas; 06-09-2015 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 06-09-2015, 11:10 AM   #424
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Moxxxy as well??? Cmon did i play only with **** bots all the time? I really have to hold a bigger pause cause now its **** tilting honestly.
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Old 06-09-2015, 11:20 AM   #425
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Simona said he thinks they are made up of experienced poker players. I would confidently assume not.
Not sure where I said that, but I believe there's gotta be some human involvement at least with a few the accounts, for example Fedor has been battling regs at higher stakes HU and more. Obv could be wrong though and we'll probably never know.

Quote:
It's ridiculous that pokerstars has yet to freeze the transfer and withdrawal functions of the accounts in question
SuSaaNiN is playing 200 zoom right now, ffs.
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