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Old 06-08-2015, 12:31 PM   #226
petteriii
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastafiore View Post
watch his game in zoom500, not even close as same as on normal tables before.

and here is few facts of FEDOR, samanta, prius, emperor and rockfella for example: they all are cbettin MORE ON MULTIWAY POTS, than HU. that is the thing you can explain only 2different ways, they are braindead, or they dont play fair. and if they are winning regs, i think 2nd option is more likely.

i could be wrong on MDU:s situation but id like if pokerstars team checks his game and stuff trought too..

this bots are also stabbing very much, making blufs on flop with air in spots what does not make any sense, not even a little, and you cant explain those by taking a balance card on desk.

they are 3betting and 4betting only bug cards/big pairs, and they are dominating our hands way too often if we watch closer stats and hands.

samanta81, fedor, prius, rockfella, emperor : their game styles are identic, and 4 of them started on stars very close same time.

and you should still remember that there is a human after all behind everything this so he knows he have to keep this bots on balance by loosing with one or two accounts, changing from normal tables to zoom and stuff, tonet get busted. if you think yourselves to that situation you do money with a bot, would you just let them autopilot everydraw and never change anything? im still 100%sure about that fedor is a bot and 99% in N@T@L@T situation. chatting or "tilting" or anything like that proves only that there is not a bot behind the bots, there is a clever human.





    Poker Stars, $1/$2 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #36686541

    Hero (BB): $438.81 (219.4 bb)
    UTG: $89.06 (44.5 bb)
    MP: $218.47 (109.2 bb)
    CO: $357.28 (178.6 bb)
    BTN: $169.80 (84.9 bb)
    SB: $245.77 (122.9 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with 2 9 T A
    UTG raises to $6, MP folds, CO calls $6, BTN calls $6, SB folds, Hero calls $4

    Flop: ($25) 7 Q 4 (4 players)
    Hero checks, UTG checks, CO checks, BTN checks

    Turn: ($25) A (4 players)
    Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets $17, BTN calls $17, Hero folds, UTG calls $17

    River: ($76) Q (3 players)
    UTG checks, CO checks, BTN checks

    Spoiler:



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.


    Here for example is pretty braindead stab on turn from samantha
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    Old 06-08-2015, 12:37 PM   #227
    apo5tol
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    Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

    Please lets keep the discussion to accounts that are Actually under suspicion judging by the numbers and not just any aggro/non-standard somewhat winning reg.

    I cant belive that Any bot, no matter what algorithm it uses would choose this hand to bluff with in this spot for example:





      Poker Stars, $1/$2 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #36686581

      Hero (BTN): $764.23 (382.1 bb)
      RaiseMyAhigh (SB): $420.43 (210.2 bb)
      N@T@L@T (BB): $408.34 (204.2 bb)
      PINGUWARRIOR (UTG): $200 (100 bb)
      Samanta81 (MP): $246.99 (123.5 bb)
      tracedyew (CO): $179.86 (89.9 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with K 5 Q 6
      3 folds, Hero raises to $5, RaiseMyAhigh folds, N@T@L@T raises to $16, Hero calls $11

      Flop: ($33) Q J 7 (2 players)
      N@T@L@T bets $18.91, Hero calls $18.91

      Turn: ($70.82) 3 (2 players)
      N@T@L@T checks, Hero bets $44, N@T@L@T raises to $106.40, Hero calls $62.40

      River: ($283.62) 7 (2 players)
      N@T@L@T bets $267.03 and is all-in, Hero calls $267.03

      Results: $817.68 pot ($2.80 rake)
      Final Board: Q J 7 3 7
      Hero showed K 5 Q 6 and won $814.88 ($406.54 net)
      N@T@L@T showed J 8 8 9 and lost (-$408.34 net)



      Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
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      Old 06-08-2015, 12:39 PM   #228
      Grethe
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      Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by shimmy View Post
      ok, I now have a sql query to extract hand histories from a PT4 db where 2 or more of these players are on the same table.

      only finds 1813 hands in my 1m hand 2015 db, but will run it on my historical db later and create some new databases.

      any use to anyone else?
      A SQL Query comparing AIEV when two of the suspected players where on the same tables would be very usefull.. I tried building that for the first case, but it wasn't possible with HEM2.
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      Old 06-08-2015, 12:40 PM   #229
      Mig
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      Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by apo5tol View Post
      Please lets keep the discussion to accounts that are Actually under suspicion judging by the numbers and not just any aggro/non-standard somewhat winning reg.

      I cant belive that Any bot, no matter what algorithm it uses would choose this hand to bluff with in this spot for example:





        Poker Stars, $1/$2 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
        Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #36686581

        Hero (BTN): $764.23 (382.1 bb)
        RaiseMyAhigh (SB): $420.43 (210.2 bb)
        N@T@L@T (BB): $408.34 (204.2 bb)
        PINGUWARRIOR (UTG): $200 (100 bb)
        Samanta81 (MP): $246.99 (123.5 bb)
        tracedyew (CO): $179.86 (89.9 bb)

        Preflop: Hero is BTN with K 5 Q 6
        3 folds, Hero raises to $5, RaiseMyAhigh folds, N@T@L@T raises to $16, Hero calls $11

        Flop: ($33) Q J 7 (2 players)
        N@T@L@T bets $18.91, Hero calls $18.91

        Turn: ($70.82) 3 (2 players)
        N@T@L@T checks, Hero bets $44, N@T@L@T raises to $106.40, Hero calls $62.40

        River: ($283.62) 7 (2 players)
        N@T@L@T bets $267.03 and is all-in, Hero calls $267.03

        Results: $817.68 pot ($2.80 rake)
        Final Board: Q J 7 3 7
        Hero showed K 5 Q 6 and won $814.88 ($406.54 net)
        N@T@L@T showed J 8 8 9 and lost (-$408.34 net)



        Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

        That's a lot of commitment to win that hand.
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        Old 06-08-2015, 12:41 PM   #230
        Pastafiore
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        Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by petteriii View Post

        Here for example is pretty braindead stab on turn from samantha
        emperor, fedor, samanta, prius, rockfella, all them are doing just like that kind of stabs especially multiway. lastest strange spot i remember was yesterday for example samanta was calling with KK97 without fd on AQQ board my cbet wich was way more than 50% of pot, on flop, 3way, 1player still behind. me and another player had nothing obv.
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        Old 06-08-2015, 12:42 PM   #231
        jas
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        Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

        samantha doesnt 3bet anywhere near as much as the other accounts in my hand sample

        samantha also went deep in the scoop main event
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        Old 06-08-2015, 12:44 PM   #232
        Kingantsi
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        Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by apo5tol View Post
        Please lets keep the discussion to accounts that are Actually under suspicion judging by the numbers and not just any aggro/non-standard somewhat winning reg.

        I cant belive that Any bot, no matter what algorithm it uses would choose this hand to bluff with in this spot for example:





          Poker Stars, $1/$2 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
          Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #36686581

          Hero (BTN): $764.23 (382.1 bb)
          RaiseMyAhigh (SB): $420.43 (210.2 bb)
          N@T@L@T (BB): $408.34 (204.2 bb)
          PINGUWARRIOR (UTG): $200 (100 bb)
          Samanta81 (MP): $246.99 (123.5 bb)
          tracedyew (CO): $179.86 (89.9 bb)

          Preflop: Hero is BTN with K 5 Q 6
          3 folds, Hero raises to $5, RaiseMyAhigh folds, N@T@L@T raises to $16, Hero calls $11

          Flop: ($33) Q J 7 (2 players)
          N@T@L@T bets $18.91, Hero calls $18.91

          Turn: ($70.82) 3 (2 players)
          N@T@L@T checks, Hero bets $44, N@T@L@T raises to $106.40, Hero calls $62.40

          River: ($283.62) 7 (2 players)
          N@T@L@T bets $267.03 and is all-in, Hero calls $267.03

          Results: $817.68 pot ($2.80 rake)
          Final Board: Q J 7 3 7
          Hero showed K 5 Q 6 and won $814.88 ($406.54 net)
          N@T@L@T showed J 8 8 9 and lost (-$408.34 net)



          Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
          Samanta81 folded acxxx.
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          Old 06-08-2015, 12:45 PM   #233
          Pastafiore
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          Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by jas View Post
          samantha doesnt 3bet anywhere near as much as the other accounts in my hand sample
          but he did, before he jumped to the zoom. his style was identic with prius, fedor, emperor and rockfella and others.
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          Old 06-08-2015, 12:47 PM   #234
          bombonca
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          Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

          Individual hands like above prove absolutely nothing, we all made those plays countless times so lets focus on aggression stats and correlation between bots.

          Cheers!
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          Old 06-08-2015, 12:49 PM   #235
          kelnel
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          Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Kingantsi View Post
          Samanta81 folded acxxx.
          this lol



          right now samanta and sussaaasin casually playing 4 tbles zoom. i had to stop playing cause im getting paranoid whenever they are both at same table ( which happen often when you 4 zoom)
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          Old 06-08-2015, 12:50 PM   #236
          nwb123
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          Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by apo5tol View Post
          Please lets keep the discussion to accounts that are Actually under suspicion judging by the numbers and not just any aggro/non-standard somewhat winning reg.

          I cant belive that Any bot, no matter what algorithm it uses would choose this hand to bluff with in this spot for example:





            Poker Stars, $1/$2 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
            Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #36686581

            Hero (BTN): $764.23 (382.1 bb)
            RaiseMyAhigh (SB): $420.43 (210.2 bb)
            N@T@L@T (BB): $408.34 (204.2 bb)
            PINGUWARRIOR (UTG): $200 (100 bb)
            Samanta81 (MP): $246.99 (123.5 bb)
            tracedyew (CO): $179.86 (89.9 bb)

            Preflop: Hero is BTN with K 5 Q 6
            3 folds, Hero raises to $5, RaiseMyAhigh folds, N@T@L@T raises to $16, Hero calls $11

            Flop: ($33) Q J 7 (2 players)
            N@T@L@T bets $18.91, Hero calls $18.91

            Turn: ($70.82) 3 (2 players)
            N@T@L@T checks, Hero bets $44, N@T@L@T raises to $106.40, Hero calls $62.40

            River: ($283.62) 7 (2 players)
            N@T@L@T bets $267.03 and is all-in, Hero calls $267.03

            Results: $817.68 pot ($2.80 rake)
            Final Board: Q J 7 3 7
            Hero showed K 5 Q 6 and won $814.88 ($406.54 net)
            N@T@L@T showed J 8 8 9 and lost (-$408.34 net)



            Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
            would do this if he knew Samanta81 had Ac or 2 or more clubs
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            Old 06-08-2015, 12:53 PM   #237
            dankness3
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            Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

            I think it's important not to jump to conclusions too quickly, one way or the other. Like initially people popped in saying "so and so's not a bot because I've chatted with them". Individual hand histories are obviously helpful but what do these really prove other than these players do some awful ****?
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            Old 06-08-2015, 12:54 PM   #238
            freewilly12
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            Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by shimmy View Post
            yeah, about half are at 100 zoom and 50 zoom though where the bots don't play so the real sample i'm extracting from is ~ 500k hands
            I am pretty sure there are quite a lot of bots at 50& 100 zoom.

            This is the most blatant example:


            This is quite botty too:

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            Old 06-08-2015, 12:56 PM   #239
            locomi
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            Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

            Those individual HH's are obv very important proof if u are stars and can check if these weird plays very often happen when the folded cards by other suspected 'bots' include relevant blockers
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            Old 06-08-2015, 12:59 PM   #240
            dankness3
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            Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by locomi View Post
            Those individual HH's are obv very important proof if u are stars and can check if these weird plays very often happen when the folded cards by other suspected 'bots' include relevant blockers
            yes this is really good point I meant these individual hand histories aren't that important in proving people are not bots, obviously could be extremely damning if other suspected players had certain hole cards.
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            Old 06-08-2015, 01:00 PM   #241
            nwb123
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            Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

            I just wonder why none of the accused players came out to say I am that player and I am not a bot and I can prove it. nobody...
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            Old 06-08-2015, 01:05 PM   #242
            locomi
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            Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by dankness3 View Post
            yes this is really good point I meant these individual hand histories aren't that important in proving people are not bots, obviously could be extremely damning if other suspected players had certain hole cards.
            yes. If they have done this it's really embarrasing to say the least for stars, since u'd expect they would be able to uncover this pretty easily. Especially when many of these players have been reported numerous times before.
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            Old 06-08-2015, 01:11 PM   #243
            nwb123
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            Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by locomi View Post
            yes. If they have done this it's really embarrasing to say the least for stars, since u'd expect they would be able to uncover this pretty easily. Especially when many of these players have been reported numerous times before.
            the problem is that the guys who are investigating it will not be too good at PLO/poker and will not know much about blockers, etc. I have personally worked for one of the biggest poker companies and know the guys just use the tools they have for bot detection and look at some hands to find a pretty obvious collusion like folding the best hand or raise folding a very weak hand in a weird spot. They will not be able to analyze a PLO hand like you or me, doubt they will even know that it matters that a player had an ace blocker
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            Old 06-08-2015, 01:12 PM   #244
            KrachBummEnte
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            Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

            It's beyond me how they can still be playing right now. Stars should immediately freeze accounts and block cashouts.
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            Old 06-08-2015, 01:17 PM   #245
            TianYuan
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            Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

            These random hhs being posted seem to mostly detract from the more legitimate concerns in this thread. Also, i dont find 4somniare being a big winner all that suspicious really... yeah he makes plays i dont get sometimes but mostly he just seems to abuse the **** out of people overfolding flop and turn with some very exploitative range constructions?

            Not saying that's evidence against him being a bot, just that i dont think he'd need holecard sharing to win.
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            Old 06-08-2015, 01:18 PM   #246
            shimmy
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            Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Grethe View Post
            A SQL Query comparing AIEV when two of the suspected players where on the same tables would be very usefull.. I tried building that for the first case, but it wasn't possible with HEM2.
            working on it now, but really don't have a big enough sample for it to be useful, only 3.5k relevant hands even including my 2014 db (most of them didn't play zoom last year, right)?
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            Old 06-08-2015, 01:19 PM   #247
            Pastafiore
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            Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by nwb123 View Post
            the problem is that the guys who are investigating it will not be too good at PLO/poker and will not know much about blockers, etc. I have personally worked for one of the biggest poker companies and know the guys just use the tools they have for bot detection and look at some hands to find a pretty obvious collusion like folding the best hand or raise folding a very weak hand in a weird spot. They will not be able to analyze a PLO hand like you or me, doubt they will even know that it matters that a player had an ace blocker
            +1, have been thinking of that many times too.
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            Old 06-08-2015, 01:19 PM   #248
            locomi
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            Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by nwb123 View Post
            the problem is that the guys who are investigating it will not be too good at PLO/poker and will not know much about blockers, etc. I have personally worked for one of the biggest poker companies and know the guys just use the tools they have for bot detection and look at some hands to find a pretty obvious collusion like folding the best hand or raise folding a very weak hand in a weird spot. They will not be able to analyze a PLO hand like you or me, doubt they will even know that it matters that a player had an ace blocker
            yes, and if this is true for Stars security it is highly unfortunate, hopefully this thread can push towards change in this matter regardless of outcome. Have OP's been in touch with stars and layed out the different possibilities very simply for the Support to show them where they should look? Will it help if more people email stars about this?
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            Old 06-08-2015, 01:21 PM   #249
            shimmy
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            Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

            I emailed Stars this morning with a link to this thread and asking them to confirm they were investigating, haven't had a reply yet.

            Think you're being a bit harsh on their security staff, most of them will be pretty experienced poker players.
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            Old 06-08-2015, 01:21 PM   #250
            naggeri
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            Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

            Can someone check squeeze situations?
            When some of susp regs. was in the pot with someone other and other susp.reg squeezed.
            Those HHs will be relevant first of all.
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