Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them - Page 41 - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

this is insane. of all the times there have been talk of a player boycott, this needs to be the one where regs refuse to play. you are not playing in fair poker games. you are being cheated. dont sit.

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06-15-2015 , 02:37 PM

#1002

Schwein

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeWithFaceCards

Maybe we can get a statement from Party Poker at least?

Started looking like and hour ago and I got 4 of those already, identical to the Stars ones. Same **** with 3bet=Sqz, BB Agg=Agg, WWSF>49 WTSD=28+-, those low folds to cbets on flop, cbet flop IP around 70%, C/R F-T-R 15-15-3. Everything is as it should be.

I look for them and its either 3-4 stats max matching and then the rest different, or its 20+ stats being exactly the same as for the botters on Stars.

There is totally no middle ground. If its a match, its a 100% one. For the rest of the regs I can tell very quickly that they are different and not one of them.

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06-15-2015 , 02:37 PM

#1003

Plw

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 399

Someone know if they were sharing cards btw the accounts aswell ?

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06-15-2015 , 02:41 PM

#1004

4-Star General

adept

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,012

@Schwein, plz tell me that you are in touch with PS...

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06-15-2015 , 02:44 PM

#1005

Schwein

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plw

Someone know if they were sharing cards btw the accounts aswell ?

I stopped pursuing this theory completely.

I saw data from some pretty big DBs. Totally no reason to believe that they are colluding, card sharing or working together in any way. I never claimed they are.

They dont run above EV when seated at the same table, and they have much lower observed winrate as they should when seated with another good reg instead of a random player.

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06-15-2015 , 02:57 PM

#1006

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,420

How many players are up on these bots?

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06-15-2015 , 03:03 PM

#1007

freewilly12

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 301

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilya N

What's stopping you from exploiting their amazing strategy if you got all the numbers on them?

How you exploit a somewhat balanced GTO-approach AI ?
I think this is a losing proposition to most of the regs at the stake level.

They also profit from fun players and seriously hurt the PLO ecosystem by crushing each limit they play.

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06-15-2015 , 03:13 PM

#1008

Plw

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 399

I hope ps will refund cheated players by the money they lost to them and not the remaining funds in the cheaters accounts.....

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06-15-2015 , 03:38 PM

#1009

madsamot

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 51

Taking out money from the econemy is the main concern. They play far from GTO-balanced and are quite exploitable. There is a reason they never played 5-10+.

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06-15-2015 , 03:49 PM

#1010

Schwein

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by madsamot

Taking out money from the econemy is the main concern. They play far from GTO-balanced and are quite exploitable. There is a reason they never played 5-10+.

Indeed, they did badly at 500+.

They are not GTO as in game theory optimal, but if we had to distinguish between exploitable approach and GTO approach, they sure take the GTO road. Trying to be unexploitable and actually managing to be unexploitable are 2 different things

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06-15-2015 , 03:56 PM

#1011

freewilly12

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 301

Quote:

Originally Posted by madsamot

Taking out money from the econemy is the main concern. They play far from GTO-balanced and are quite exploitable. There is a reason they never played 5-10+.

Yes I would highlight the word somewhat and not being exploited by the players at their stake level.
If they had huge leaks in their game they wouldn't be crushing zoom like they are now.

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06-15-2015 , 04:26 PM

#1012

apo5tol

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,238

Well, the fact of the matter is that plo games 200 and below are still fairly soft (in terms of overall player skill, dont wana start a rake discussion here or whatever), so accounts who are able to play ridiculous number of hands and never go on tilt will prey on the recs and weaker regs thus destroying the overall economy.

Even the bosses of plo5k+ should be concerned because of this fact even tho these bots obviously wont have a chance against them.

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06-15-2015 , 04:31 PM

#1013

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,420

Making it tougher for weak regs to shot take is a huge problem for higher stakes players

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06-15-2015 , 04:33 PM

#1014

MX210

banned

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 401

Quote:

Originally Posted by apo5tol

Well, the fact of the matter is that plo games 200 and below are still fairly soft (in terms of overall player skill, dont wana start a rake discussion here or whatever), so accounts who are able to play ridiculous number of hands and never go on tilt will prey on the recs and weaker regs thus destroying the overall economy.

Even the bosses of plo5k+ should be concerned because of this fact even tho these bots obviously wont have a chance against them.

Why are you so interested in forcing your views as facts?

You JUST moved to plo10(5cent/10cents), how do you know anything about the level these boats can beat? The NL bots beat 1k, why wouldnt the plo bot beat plo1k+ right now or very soon?

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06-15-2015 , 04:33 PM

#1015

freewilly12

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 301

Quote:

Originally Posted by apo5tol

They might not have chance against them now but future will bring better equity calculations and more computing power.
Human IQ is going to remain pretty the flat same time...

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06-15-2015 , 04:37 PM

#1016

apo5tol

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,238

Quote:

Originally Posted by MX210

You JUST moved to plo10(5cent/10cents), how do you know anything about the level these boats can beat?

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06-15-2015 , 04:41 PM

#1017

freewilly12

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 301

Quote:

Originally Posted by MX210

He is a zoom 500 reg. But lets keep ego battles out of this thread.

apo5tol did you wake up from the matrix ?

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06-15-2015 , 04:44 PM

#1018

urubu222

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 476

i think theres 2 big reasons bots won a lot:

1- nobody knew they were bots. if everyone knew they were bots, they wouldn't win like they did. its a lot diference play vs a bot when you know its a bot, than when you are sure its a human playing . history/metgame plays a lot when you multitabling same guys everyday .

you are lost when you play vs a bot, being sure its a human . but you have lots of chances to beat the same bot, when you know its a bot .

2- they don't tilt .

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06-15-2015 , 04:54 PM

#1019

SoMarginal

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 366

If anyone wants to work together to uncover any possible bots on party PLO games please PM me.

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06-15-2015 , 05:05 PM

#1020

Schwein

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoMarginal

If anyone wants to work together to uncover any possible bots on party PLO games please PM me.

I got 7 matching screen names on PP for October 2014-present. Will post tomorrow probably.

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06-15-2015 , 05:09 PM

#1021

MX210

banned

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 401

Quote:

Originally Posted by apo5tol

Sorry, its just your comment made absolutely no sense whatsoever and you have threads at micros.

It's still dumb as **** to claim that bots don't beat plo1k because the "regs are so good". There's a decent chance the best bots around are those guys at nl and plo1k+ that nobody understands. (ie ICEMAN for NL)

But i did get excited, sorry. Happens to often that an old reg date plays nl2cent and comments with infinite knowledge of highstake games. Thought you were one of them :>

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06-15-2015 , 05:45 PM

#1022

apo5tol

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,238

im talking about this group of bots, against which I have tens of thousands of hands played. which bots are you talking about?

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06-15-2015 , 05:47 PM

#1023

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,420

How much are you up/down versus them if you don't mind sharing?

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06-15-2015 , 06:00 PM

#1024

Don Melchor

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,662

Funny enough today PS fires a bunch of staff, game integrity and a lot other positions. Not because theyre failing at their job but to reduce costs. So we can deff expect PS to do worse than what theyre doing right now

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06-15-2015 , 06:06 PM

#1025

apo5tol

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,238

I have no idea how to group them, so i'll just list the main ones I could find in VsPlayer tab of HM2
FedorZaysev +3879
Samanta81 +4051
4somniare +802
seregaxx -679 (very few hands as i dont think he plays zoom)
emper0r92 +248(also very few hands)
IpushmyPrius -785
SuSaaNiN -1949
SSELrive +1440
IMissFender -160
RockfellaJ +1735 (few hands)

I might've played some hands against others on the list, but their names dont ring a bell.
Anyways, not sure why it matters.

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