i think the most obvious and easiest thing that can be done is for stars to flag accounts that come out of nowhere and play >50k hands in a month (or some other arbitrary but large amount of hands over an arbitrary time period). if an account suddenly starts playing a ton, flag it and make it go through a trial period where cashouts are limited and the account is watched.

the point is, in today's poker environment it is wildly unusual for a player to come out of nowhere, play a ton of hands, and crush. any account that does so should be met with skepticism and investigation by a competent body.

Hi Dan. I feel like we got enough media coverage now, maybe more then enough. I wanted to see a public statement by PokerStars that they will deal with it ASAP. The way it works with big corporations this days, our only chance to have it resolved quickly was to make it public.

I absolutely dont want to hurt online poker or PokerStars, I still believe that they are the best site to play on, but they really need to step up their game when it comes to catching those kind of rings.

atm none of them is playing stars (plo 200-600 including zoom) while one of them is just playing 2 tables ipoker. a good sign that accounts might be at least frozen now?

agree , worse thing is this bots are coming back for sure. but i think theres some hope... if stars get some guys (like schwein) and pay them to do what they did, 1 time each 60 days ? or something like this .

the cam i dont think its a good idea. recs will think its weird and not every computer has a webcam. (mine dont have for ex) .

The press in the UK is predominantly anti gambling. It was the Mail that scuppered supercasinos and it and the Observer/Guardian are happy to join in the anti FOBT nonsense.

Well actually that is a bit too simplistic the Guardian/Observer is out and out anti gambling in part due to their methodist roots. The Mail group is generally pro UK casinos anti the rest - they opposed supercasinos to try to keep the big US casinos out.

I know all this seems like it has been going on too long but in terms of an investigation or regulatory action it is a mere blink. I'm not convinced national press is the way to go yet - in part we have no sympathetic victim, we have no real conclusion, no identified villain and no real clear demand beyond Stars pay money to people who gamble a lot, many for a living.

The risks outweigh any potential benefit - however in a few weeks/months when the new CEO of the UKGC is appointed then their might be a hook for a story on her job as needing to clean up global poker (She starts 1st October)

You might not want to post 100k samples on legit people even if its just very basic stats...?

wow didnt even see you had a full tilt column, no wonder i haven't seen ibizadreaming around in forever, he used to always sit the 5/10 shallow tables i was at and i can definitely see that now.

sickening, for real

Totally agree with this. I have posted my take on this 3 posts up from Richas.

So sick ..following

seregaxx:, post from me ready
seregaxx: but i wait mu friend for tranclate
hero: ?
seregaxx: 2+2
Dealer: seregaxx has two pair, Aces and Tens
Dealer: PeiMaiPano93 has a straight, Seven to Jack
Dealer: Hand #136633251098: PeiMaiPano93 wins pot ($97.20) with a straight,Seven to Jack
hero: speak proper english
hero: what do u mean
seregaxx: and i know who is swain
hero: swain?
seregaxx: my eng is bad
seregaxx: not soo good for posting
hero: doesnt matter but dont understand what ur talking about
hero: are u gonna post on 2+2?
seregaxx: to morrow
Dealer: Hand #136633314091: seregaxx wins pot ($66.20)
hero: ok cool u should
seregaxx: need help for tranclate
Dealer: Hand #136633392762: reppinR1 wins pot ($6.68)
hero: i see, got to go bye
seregaxx: gl



I am curious now

Wtf....i had no knowledge of this.

Sites are enslaving us guys.

One idea would be to make our own company, with our own BOT detection program and a team of workers who`ll monitor it for a monthly fee or w/e.
Blackmail the sites that we`ll not play until our BOT detection software has full access to all the hands played on the site across all limits for all games.

this summary added to OP.

Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but are the bots as a whole running far above EV? If that is the case over 17mm hands, it would be more evidence that they are sharing hole cards as well.

I do agree that pokerstars is the best site for all poker and yes me and my wife have had a very lengthy positive response but with a few ( we can't tell you why we've banned A,B or C etc ) or enhance on many things etc. they have far from said that no corruption has taken place as they wrote that they have banned many accounts etc.

My own wife being what is basically robbed by bot making scumbags and losing thousands when the odds were stacked against her does make her look like a crap player but her all-in stats say it all. There is a 25% difference in her winning an 80% all-in against most of these Bots and one that she says follows her about and she can't beat as he hits then leaves the table quickly with double his starting stack on nearly every occasion. Alepato77. Now today I looked at all levels of PLO zoom and mostly the Eastern Europeans are playing all 4 tables allowed as opposed to any one from Western Europe. I'm meaning Russia, Estonia, Latvia, khasikstan. The latter 3 countries having the poorest income of any eastern block country playing up to 24/7.
Now no one on the list of yours apart from a brief appearance from Seargeaxx played and he still had 3 tables of 3.5 stacks, 2.5 and a 1 buyin stack and he'd only just come on to the site after a quick all in destruction of a few recs with LOve2playu doing well as a known pro I expect taking notes on this situation.

We can only see what pokerstars has investigated and the action taken and full compensation offered to all affected who had also paid rake for a fair game that turned in to a virtual no win no win.

Wait a few more days and see what happens but there is enough stats to sink a battleship and their is corruption of some kind with those kind of stats and shoving with complete crap and losing to villain who shoves with 477Q losing to XAAX nearly every time.

Best wishes all and let's clean these games up.

In the early posts the first ~6-10 were very high above EV. I don't know if there has been an update since we got to 27 or whatever we're at now.

I think Seargeaxx is trying to level you on "I speak no English" fedor is suspected brother bot speaks excellent English so why not get him to post or " I'm not holding my breath with a statement from sergeaxx. He can post in Russian and I'll offer to translate it for him. Or anyone can get a Rough idea by using some very good language translation programs. I use them if I can't speak a language and they get the general idea you're on to them and they don't reply in Russian or their native language.

@Ansky - read posts from #127 - #130.

@AIEV,

The first banned accounts were running waaay over AIEV. It is not possible to setup filters in HEM2 to do the comparing "when two of the players were at the same table" though.

@seregaxx
Of all the guys suspected, seregaxx is one of the guys I suspect less. Have seen him do some crazy **** like 3betting Q772ss, calling 4-bet OOP etc.

He could simply be taking over for the bot more often than other guys.
He could be a degen running a bot for the ring and being a degen would explain why when he takes over he's terrible and why he's still playing now when he should just withdraw and quit.

He stated that he can't communicate in basic english. It's hard to believe a complete crusher wouldnt be able to communicate at all in english.

It is not possible within HEM2, but you can use pgadmin, query the DB and check the results while both playing at the same table

At first I had seregaxx noted as a spazz hyperagro fish cause of the 3bet/4bet stuff he does. but somehow he always manages hit enough of the board to stackoff and very often wins.

My EP open is 14% and hes 3bet calls a 4bet with a664ss from MP 100 deep, there is no possible way a 10bb/100 winner can be doing this. This thread really explains alot imo.

You are wrong, security methods has to change.
Think about computer security. Many hackers are making viruses,exploits and other things while security expert are fighting them.
By your logic, since hackers will continue, your only chance is give up.

Let's face it, poker room security sucks in general, that's why are the perfect target for bots...
Something has to change, PS and other rooms need to hire real security experts, guys like OP to do custom and costant analysis and so on.
Of course, if things stays like now, poker is doomed. Probably the issue here is that PS hasn't consider BOTs threats, until now.
Let's hope for the best, I'm positive that something will be done, maybe it won't prevent all the future attempts but something will change for sure

I have googled the "PLO bot ring" and the NVG thread is higher then this one. The guy who started it copied half of my post without explaining who is legit and who is not. I have informed the admins and they added my post in full with the additional explanation who is legit. Protecting the human players is top priority for me.

I tried to be very carefull with how I chose the wording for each of my posts, if anyone wants to quote me, you are welcome to do so but please dont cut my posts into parts. That can misrepresent everything badly. Dumb luck has it I didnt use full screen names for the chart that is now in NVG and only abbreviations.

100%, that`s why i think there should be a third party company monitoring the games for BOTS/collusion/etc.

I am working on this, preliminary results based on ~350k hands from the suspected accounts of which 43k hands have more than account at table don't show any evidence of collusion: the accounts are running roughly at EV over all hands and below EV when more than one is at the table.

Many more hands to import and other things to check...