So we have these suspect accounts still operating and a flimsy answer as to "we might change some rules" why just keep it in the forums?

The recreational players are throwing thousands at these bot fraudsters without realising that a small but big enough kick up the butt has prompted an answer from pokerstars Steve. What action did they take to tackle attacks on high stakes regs at past EPTs? Well Lee Jones didn't give a **** until jeans89 and ignat 'O' HumanO took to 2 plus 2.

Poker is a game of skill being overtaken online by programmers, bots and allowed semi automated bots plus seat scripting which targets the recreational fish.

We are not playing the game we love anymore as when we see the cards turn over on the river you can hear yourself saying yep villain just needs an 8 to win and boom an 8 appears.

So we have 10 days of giving ideas and good discussion which is good but if zero happens then I know more than enough British national journalists that would run with this story due to the different types of fraud that seem to have been ignored for a very long time. Once in the mainstream press then the gambling commission will have no choice but to act.

This serious topic needs all to discuss this and not just those who feel losing their decision making tools is going to hurt them as others have been destroyed by gambling addictions chasing a dream they can't win with the fraud going on in online poker.

I would be shocked if d33xtr was a pure bot. But I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if he was using some software to 'aid' his game. Ive played quite abit with d33xtr, I had more meta game going with him, then i did vast majority of regs at 100z NL. He did seams to have the same kind of stats/ sizings alot of the accounts accused of cheating had.

I have only glanced over this thread so far,( will read the rest soon) im not sure exactly what things you are using to detect bots, but will read and find out.

I Have seen quite a few strange things from qwerpassword the regular frequency's and sizings of the others accused, as well as missing quite a few super easy VBs ( any of you guys have decent samples on your DB involving him and you filter for river spots, you will see what i mean).

I havnt reviewed my hands with allian, but intend to. he has some the suspicious sizing's and frequency's. why do you believe he is not a cheater/bot?

Thank you for the work you are doing on this Schwein

cant you just exploit this by cbetting less?

No strat here plz, there r better ways to exploit this.

I sincerely hate having payed 80k (after deducting rakeback) last year and still gotten like 3 times 22usd as refund. Its a big ***** joke.

Sorry guys I know where you are coming from. But the cheats have proven to be Russian and Chinese and I have seen their blatant cheating ads.

I apologize to anybody who has taken offense from my stereotyping. I have several eastern euro friends who are more honest and hardworking than my western friends. I also know and play against many Russian poker players who are extremely talented and need no help from cheats to beat the game.

Simple fact is that these cheating sites aren't run by Germans, Canadians, Brits, Australians or ex-pats in Mexico or Thailand. The cheating enterprise is run almost exclusively by eastern euros due to the lack of regulation, oversight and consequence in their home nations.

+1

All algorithms can be changed. But the Programmes used learn a million times quicker and hand by hand adding these cards stats to their data sets and winning even more.

We need to wait for several types of stats as statistics can be manipulated in favour or against, hence the quote "statistics statistics & more lies" used mainly by politicians!

I spent 9 years after graduating working with a very large dept of multinational statisticians and mathematicians at a place called rothamsted experimental station and a guy called Frank Yates RIP started the various variance equations we use today. So I worked with the very best mathematicians and statisticians and programmers in the world and I'm asking two ex colleagues what they make of the statistics. I can just look at some of the stats and say "well two identical graphs etc etc like. Fedorsayev and sergeaxx and same playing hours. Identical in nearly every way.

Schwein and Richas who's the regulator expert I hope can use all our input and stop all the collusion and bots once and for all.

very well said. its all about the money. risk vs reward.until it really blows up into a huge scandal or becomes close to doing so i from there viewpoint the rake was too much to throw away. greed will get them everytime. always does

UB and FTP happened because they ran out of money. This is far from the beginning of the end for Stars. If there were alternatives, you may be right. Right now, most people who even play in those games will suck it up and try to grind a living. I do agree with the rest of your post but I think it's important to distinguish that this isn't the same company ownership it was a year and a half ago. They have different interest and can go after them if they so choose.

But tell me: why always russians?

Originally Posted by shimmy View Post
gantenbein29 is 100% not a bot, I know who he is.

Been alerted to this kinda late, sorry for responding to something that's page 1/8, but:
Have never been chat banned in my life. Also - not a bot. Also - not a winning player : D

Are u able to provide a list of all cheaters including the dmg they did to other players per hand (i think (winnings+ attributed rake)/avg number of player in the hand is a good measure).

This would make it possible to calculate the dmg taken from them?

Don't know if relevant, but I got a small refund from PS three weeks ago. Could be connected to this?..

I very nearly threw up when I read that.

Your work (and that of the other players who raised suspicions) is greatly appreciated.

Yes, me too.

But i expect the dmg they did to other players something like that:

(winnings + rake attributed) / avg number of opponents in the hands = ~ 30 / 4 = ~7,5bb/100

This means the dmg should be something like 15.000 x 7,5bb/100 = 1125 bb (just an example i think many grinders played many more hands vs them)

For example RichardLionH had that insane combination of wwsf, wtsd and wsd untill april 2014 of even earlier.

NeedB4Greed,

then what about the Germans, who out of sudden crush all the SuperHighroller and Mixed games? And before that I do think the strongest players were all Americans.

But to me, Fin are the real problem, they are taking all our money for years now!

post like this by "respected" members are why the sites do not care about banning bots. Always have someone to back them up and make anyone theorizing anything look foolish.

I think it's suspicious that none of the suspected bots have come out and defended themselves

Hey guys,

Is this only plo100 and above?, or is plo10-plo50 affected and if not why not?

Thanks

Accs from Kazakhstan have become increasingly more active on plo10 and plo25 last few months and all seem to very aggro postflop.

Pokerstars has just announced rule changes regarding 3rd party software. Iam pretty sure, this decision is connected to the bot ring

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...anges-1538981/

No, it appears this is connected to the discussion about the software a couple of people are using for jackpot sng's rather than this bot ring.

I'd definitely be concerned about it. I dont know how far down it stakes has been checked but it seems very possible they go all the way down.

I think it could be a good idea to start a skype group for this. We are just giving them more info, having this chat out in the open

I gave some tips to freewilly12 and he has programmed a custom made stat in Notecaddy. After running it on my DB I got 10 positives and 1 false positive, no new names.

Willy got 10 positives and 1 false positive in his DB.

I have searched every account that has played at least 1K hands in my DB and got only one false positive while getting all the cheaters right.

So if those guys open a new account they should be flagged and caught within 24 hours.