Cmon guys there must be holecard sharing involved that would be the only reason to make PLO bot.

I have 40k hands by the "bots" All das played myself against them. Non sds are slighty positiv

I´ll go ahead and forward the 1.6MM hands ive on them to Schwein and shimmy to let them check even more.

On a sidenote, there are already the first article reagarding this at the pokerpress!

One more appreciation to OP for bringing up the attention to this matter.

Not much to add other than that I think Seakings post makes sense in a way. Why would any of them play on games they cant cheat?

This prolly would not be used to prove anything but its one more of those coincidente among alleged cheaters.

Why isn't pokernews picking up a story like this ? It's one of the biggest scandal since UB era and people have to be made aware of this to pressure Stars even more. Stars integrity has been compromised in a big way and they need to act quickly. having the different news site involved is going to pressure them way more than a simple 2p2 thread

The german newssite pokerfirma already wrote about it yesterday

There is a good post by Sh@i'tan in the NVG thread...

"Bots are on stars they have been for years. stars cannot stop them and their game integrity team is beyond incompetent."

And ofc the TOS of Stars should be changed so who breaks it have to be criminal prosecuted (in some cases) and all of the money stolen return to the players efected (even if the money is in the bank) - for that there is some kind of regulation.

To test the hypothesis, that there was card sharing, one can compare stats of the "colluders" in two situations:

1) When player is the only "colluder" at the table
2) When he is not the only "colluder" at the table.

If there is collusion, winrate in sit.2 should be higher.

Also it is interesting, how often does collusion possibility occur?
And whether "colluders" have positive winrate in sit.1? If it is positive, then the bot is winning per se, and it is very sad.

At minimum I dont think PokerStars should be able to profit of cheaters. So the rake any type of cheating account make should be redistributed to the players that had to play with them. After all part of the reason we pay rake is to get honest games.

PokerStars likely should stop the suspect accounts to play on same tables just as the chinese stud players.

Thanks for the people making this thread / work.

I am flying london - lax tomorrow so will have to wait till early next week. Should have plenty of time, even on holiday, to get it done as won't be able to play any poker for next 3 weeks

Sent from my GT-I9195 using 2+2 Forums

this is a very very good point ... as I was about to write, that I am 99,9% certain that seregaxx and Samanta81 are not bots, then also seeing that these other "players" have virtually no MTT history, makes it almost obvious that these are indeed bots

PS security department hasn't failed, as many ppl itt suggest

obv the bots schwein found, weren't banned before but some are now. so please help him finding other bots and if you want to express you opinion about bots, online poker and everything else, pls visit the nvg thread to unload your thoughts.

also stop posting BS that PS wants this bots b/c they grind much and generate rake .... the potential bots are heavy winners, which means the cash out faster than others, which means money can't be raked fast enough! also consider, that there was a thread last year, where a reg w/ heavy volume was banned and didn't get an explanation for it ... so thinking PS needs this bots, is just plain stupid.

also a note about the 'hole card sharing' ... it's really hard to separate the facts from the fiction itt, but as far as i understood this i just a theory and so far only shimmy tried to find evidence for this

there was also the argument, that the bots shoudl run over EV, with shared HC, which was kind interesting



EDIT: another thing about the 'if they weren't bot, they would defend themselves' theory .... just because for you 2+2 is the centre of the poker world, it doesn't mean it's for russian players as well. the russian poker community have their own site. also, a programmer could always claim whatsoever in a thread, basically it's the same false logic, that accounts, who chat, aren't bots

hopefully you´ve it early next week i started the dropboxupload 2hrs ago and they still tell me its 9hrs to go...

That can't be right since vs player reports don't have EV stats in them (both pt & hm).

You must have been looking at the wrong tab

I have been playing yesterday my reg OFFLINE PLO cash games and one player at the table mentioned this thread about online poker BOTs and stuff.
Since I don't play Online poker almost ever, I have been reading 2+2 USERless everytime but this thread forces me to register and write couple of sentences.

I've read the whole thread yesterday and seems like there is some kind of strategy that those guys are following or automated machinery of some sort.

When I started learning poker I just followed some charts and stuff which made my game kinda BOT-like-style, because I did what chart says and played almost the same every time (with balancing of course)
so... could it be that its not as bad as it sounds and its only special strategy that they follow and therefore they have these stats? Because I cannot believe that PS is allowing automated players to be at the tables, this is just insane and it can be a huge issue for them!
Of course I don't play online because I don't have enough confidence in any poker room so I'am quite skeptical about all poker rooms.

I can understand that they (PokerStars) may use their OWN BOTS to boost their profit up but allowing other people profit from it, no way!

So guys what do you think?

This video needs more love

Pokerstars needs to make an official statement on this issue now before it turns in to a UB scandal. So imagine that the sample we have is from $200-1000 PLO $1/2 - $3/6 then I'm damn sure the same Is happening in greater volume at the lower stakes. And then the same can be said for every type of game and format across the board.

The best bot spotters are ex-hackers or police surveillance IT experts & I spent 5 years working in this environment. In the UK we have GCHQ which have brilliant mathematicians and statisticians and when they. Leave these jobs many worked at the same place as I did in the biomathematics dept which included some of the best statisticians and programmers in the world. They are still all based at the bbsrcc and this sort of thing they could do very easily.
If pokerstars truely wants to clean up its act I'll point them in the right direction. If not I'll ask ex colleagues to try solve what's really going on.

It's not acceptable for this cheating to continue and if you did this sort of thing in a casino then it's an insta ban even if the dealers are getting good tips & rake for the casino.

you can add vs player in filters and look at any tab you want

9 hours to go? Are you up loading every players stats using just GPRS to upload? Or are you using broadband or portable broadband? Drop box is also monitored by the FBI. It's something I would not use. We have ismi stingrays monitoring our mobile phones from false masts so just think how easy it is getting to infiltrate any system.

Can't wait to see your end results.
Best wishes.

There is zero mtt history for the suspected UK player moxyyy either

http://www.officialpokerrankings.com...5BDA1.html?t=2

If the data on russian PTR is valid I've got enough data to make WWSF a significant parameter for making a judgement.

Fwiw I have forwarded all my data to Pokerstars.

Wat?

TrollAccount is uploading 1.6m hand histories of the players in question, i will then download them and do the analysis to check if we can find anything related to holecard sharing.

Feel free to let the FBI know, but i think they might be a bit busy with FIFA at the moment

Sent from my GT-I9195 using 2+2 Forums

I think at this point, all the things that these accounts and others might be doing that isn't in line with what a "real" reg would be doing or something that gives them away shouldn't be posted publicly anymore.


I got a message suggesting a skype group be created for 100% legit regs communicating somewhere private about any cheating stuff?
Just feels to me by discussing all this stuff where any cheats can read every word is not a good way to counter it in the long run...

Def agree that is a good idea. If you want to be in the group get in touch with me on here or any place else

I recommend everyone contacts poker news about this story

http://www.pokernews.com/contact.htm

Based on experiences with pokerstars security team in the past, doing this will make pokerstars take this more seriously.

Ah I'm kidding you with you. Yes the FBI spy on drop box. GCHQ spy on all Brits and the police use Riga to monitor all types of data if approved by a British Detective chief inspector or above. This is all fact but irellevent to this topic. The only reason I state this sort of stuff is that if anyone was not technically minded in mathematics to at least degree level or above or not a brilliant software developer With lots of experience then I'd say 95% of people on here would not really know where to start with this analysis & let alone understand it.
I've been in the computing & electronics & mathematics sector for over 25 years and without waffling on their is so many holes in most computer programs, I'd be very surprised if cheating was not going on. What type of extra lengths does pokerstars go to to detect anything from spyware, data loggers and Trojan horse type viruses on their own software? Pokerstars like us are in a no win situation with fraud as their is so many other things that their techies will be checking on along with these amazing bot stats. I think online poker can only do damage limitation as they won't beat all the cheats. The day will come where you could use like 'Twitch' plus fingerprint recognition software or facial login recognition for every account. The technology is here now and at least we can put a face with passport ID for every username.