bots will destroy online poker. They will get better and better to the point its hard to beat them and people will go back to casino. You also have collusion as well. Its hard to get a fair game on a ring table anymore.

Cant believe they are still playing. Also trying to look more legit by playing people hu is so lol.
And no word from any of the alleged botters in these thread yet.

Cant we get Ike and/or Lex Veldhuis to look into this together with the stars security team, since the security team as of now doesnt seem to have much knowledge of plo.

Theres a thread in NVG... Can all low-content posts please be posted there, and this thread reserved for high-content posts?

Maybe a mod could move lc/nc posts to NVG?

you know the state of this is very grim when you have to set yourself that type of rules

Jeans89 is probably the guy who could give his opinion on all the stats given here about bots & collusion as most of his online winning income is from PLO. Ike is still learning PLO and like Tom Dwan is a human calculator!
Jeans89 is the Online PLO expert I'd ask to give his opinion.

Many of the posters in this thread are highly qualified to analyse the data and stats, no need to be bringing random nosebleeds reg names into this.

If these bots are from anywhere other than the Isle of Man I doubt stars can sue any of them. I suspect they have cashed out to the max and will continue playing with a smaller bankroll until they should be suspended whilst investigated. It would be almost impossible to sue a Russian or Estonian poker player/Bot as things seem not too good with Russia and the other European countries including the U.S.

Should be confiscation and a formula including the rake they have paid stars to be paid back to those players in a not so complicated mathematical formula. Although easier said than done you will have genuine good regs who have beaten the bots & have taken the money from the bots who stole from other regs so it's a bit of a knock on effect. Let's wait & see what happens.

Agree but nice to have a famous pro who has spoken out before when laptops at past EPTs were getting spyware put on their machines until jeans89 pulled up pokerstars security up on this for not taking any of it serious until the Romanian O'Human'O ignat also complained after telling ignat and jeans had the same happen to them. It took two pros to get this noticed.

imo best opinios comes from the players who play same tables as bots does. only in this thread is enough evidence to ban all suspects sofar, if pokerstars says something else, part of their people, maybe part of employees are connected in this bot ring. that's only my opinion.

EDIT. maybe my opinion is too heavy word, raw opinion/hunch is better.

and btw jeans played in entraction/igt/b2b network also before it was driven down, and there was cheating/bot suspects also.

Can you please elaborate on why this should be the case? Why would a run good be indicative / suggestive of bots?

It's due to holecard sharing allowing you to know if your outs are good.

???

Let's say I share cards with you and know my outs are good or bad. Now, how can I turn that into a good run? If my outs are bad, I'd probably fold and that won't make me run above EV, right? If my outs are good, I'd probably stick in and that might make my EV graph look nice, but how can I run above that EV?

such a sick thread

hope all those harmed by this get some substantial refunds

Or, were you suggesting that I am getting it in with an equity better than what would appear in the EV graph?

If you stick it in on the flop on a heart draw and know 4 black cards are dead from your friends hand, then that will on average make you run over EV at the end of the hand, the EV calculated by your HEM/PT

Either way I think over/under EV due to card removal is a distraction in this case and should not be a point of focus.

Yeah I got it, and I agree with your second sentence. Thanks!

How can someone who plays with these bots help?

What should I be looking for in the hands?

this is obviously a bigger deal in cash games, but i wonder how these bots would fair in mtt poker. does anyone here think people would deploy these bots in mtts over cash games?

This thread should have never been brought to open public and surely not to NVG etc.
So much offtopic and low content ITT, it's sickening in a case like this.
Maybe keep future investigations private and only add people who either play with these bots on a regular basis or can help with the analysis. This here leads to nothing.

Not for no reason is the national anthem, of the Isle Of Man, 'Do What You Like' by Take That. 'Shoeshine' Devine, 'Rottweiler' Rutherford, and their ilk are merely tame patsies, blockers protecting Star's/Tilt's autonomy and keeping the tax revenue flowing. And 'nifty' Norma, at the U.K GC can, on occasion, utilise the kind of footwork that seperates the Lionel Messi's from the Shaun Wright-Phillip's.

Regulatory implications

On a more serious note, the poker community owes Schwein, et al, a huge thanks for their painstaking work.

not agree if the bots don't do card sharing this is v scary, if they do it seems like that could be the only reason they're winning - you plo guys seem to be getting it in a lot

wrong. pokerstars did nothing when few regs inc. me did report part of those bots last year. this is best opinion after that because it did not work with smaller amount of people.

Did you report with the evidence which was posted in this thread? Or just speculations back then?
I understand your point, but working everything out in a more private manner (but being open to people with knowledge joining), then presenting to Stars and the public might have been smarter. Programmer is obv. reading this and started to act less suspicious already. Now also everybody involved with programming bots knows how to make them less suspicious.

This.

If the bots can literally destroy midstakes PLO without using card sharing, it's so ****ing scary, if they use card sharing it's bad but less so.

you should read this whole thread (again?)

and before you undestand me wrong, im not trying to be an aas, forgive me my bad finglish/english