The description of the bot ring can be found here, no need for me to write it all again. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...58&postcount=1

The stats can be found here http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...25&postcount=5

I found 10+ more accounts. Posting only those that play on daily basis.






I strongly believe those arent fully automated. The playing schedule of the ones on zoom would suggest, that they are operated by humans working a 9 to 5 and 5 days a week job. (some sort of PLOSnowie?)



How to find bots using your own HEM database, a 3 step guide.

Step 1. Go to opponents tab, filter out for most hands played and sort by postflop Agg %. They should be sitting right next to each other like a big happy family. Anyone with postflop Agg% between 38.5 and 41.5 should be checked manually.



Step 2. Check all the other stats, if c/r flop is really high and equal to c/r turn and 3bet is equal to sqz (wtf?) they are a prime suspect.



Step 3. Ask someone with a Russian PTR account to check for final confirmation.

Thats more or less what I did. Thanks to Oink and Grethe and the guy that provided me with access to Russian PTR so I could dig up some dirt.



Bonus step. Go report to PokerStars.

MOD EDIT

MOD EDIT

SUMMARY

this is huge if true

i have my suspicions about some of the above, but fairly certain Samanta and FedorZ arent bots

How does it make sense for people running a SS/MSPLO botring with winning bots to have a 9-5 job five days a week?

If their 9-5 is worth enough money to keep them from running the bots full time, then it's unlikely that they would have spent the time and energy to create the bots in the first place

If creating the bots is worth it, then it's unlikely that they stay with their 9-5

Random thought... I have nothing else to add.

edit: or do you mean that they run the bots as if it was a 9-5 job? if so excuse my post lol

Running the bot is their 9 to 5 job. Some of the accounts are active 5 days a week for 8 hours, always during the same hours.

I'm assuming it's ok to ask whether Emper0r was the seventh player in Oink and Grethe's suspicions? I would be shocked if he wasn't - the only player I've ever suspected. Seems to own me but he plays so bad and very similarly to the Kazakhs. Would be surprised if it was true of others mentioned though.

I played a lot of hands with all the players mentioned above and all of them have a completely different postflop/preflop style.

Samanta has replied to me in chat before. That's mean def not bot right?

like OP posts it could be possible that humans press the buttons but based on a fully automatic decision taking software.
def the stats do look very strange

what's really strange is some of these players have great results and never tried to play anything 500 and above , i'd guess that if u beat 200 for 8/100 at a solid sample u'd take a shot a little bit higher no?

Ah, yes, figured it out after looking at the play-time stats
Yeah but a bot operator would have the exact same incentive as a human player to do the same so that's not too relevant I think

i understand but players in higher stakes are more likely to exploit a bot's patterns and if not they are more likely to expose it.

That was one of the damming evidences for the russian/Kazahk bots that were banned. They all crushed PLO100 for 7-11 bb/100 (thats what? 12-17bb/100 incl SB rb). But didnt move up. None of them were ever tracked playing a hand of 1/2 or above. never!

It was. Now that others have outet his stats, we are fine with acknowledging that. Right from the start, when we looked at their stats, he was the one player that stood out.

@ OP

Id be very surprised if Seregaxx is a bot. I have seen him on crazy ass monkey tilt a number of times. He also likes to try to run people over. If he runs good he gets sick aggressive.

Have always been suspicious towards IMissFender. But take that fwiw, havent played him that much, but he does a lot of the same things as the banned accounts

So guys, I've added the "new suspected accounts" to the dataset we provided to Pokerstars back in February.



Some interesting points:

1) I dont like the idea of posting nicks, OP. First of all, nothing is sure and we might risk they also are reading this...

2) I'm pretty sure FedorZ not is a bot. He used to play NLHE as well. Seregaxx and Samanta81 have posted in the chat.

3) The dataset is very interesting. Especially the difference between the allready busted accounts and the new accounts.
I mean, 21/25 stats are within a 5% interval and most inside a 2% difference. With sample sizes this big and the number of comparable accounts included, this cant be explained by random coincidence or a special "playstyle".

4) Some of the difference might be due to the mix of zoom and reg tables.

This is indeed huge...
Have always seen similarities in some spots in some of the mentioned players. I do play on a daily basis with almost all of them. Let me know how I can help for the investigation. Would more complaints to stars urge the investigation or should i just try to find spots, in which they play very similarly.

Btw if it is a person clicking buttons looking at a program that does all decisions for him, I believe stars are fine with this; there was a similar thread about a HUSNG program with same features and it was not banned, as it was the player clicking the buttons.

I hope this is going to be taken very seriously from good data analyzing people and pokerstars , we are talking about almost a 500k hit to the players who are trying to move up in the food chain and their protection/security is essential for the future health of the games.

Including rb, the russian/Kazahk bots at PLO100 took out +250k USD over maybe 18 months. Anyone who thinks thats a non issue, regardless if you are a PLO100 reg or a PLO1k reg, has no idea how the poker economy works.

It is a HUGE issue

Id also like to encourage all to take a close look at the stats Grethe just posted. The similarities between the postflop stats in particular is disturbing. I mean, yeah sure, they could all have learned PLO from the same dude and talk PLO with each other. But it needs looking into.

wow - wow - wow

wtf - this be cray

it would make me mad if all those were bots

i just stumbled upon this thread. didnt go fully into it yet. just saw the sns. Will comment more later. thx for posting.


PS: if the recent refund concern these players, then the refund was a joke.

surprised none's mentioned fedorzaysev specifically since he plays the highest of all the listed players...he plays all regular 6m tables 2/4-5/10 including posting hu at 5/10 vs tough regs. if he's a bot that's pretty scary :O

have played a little with seregaxx too

@OP

thanks for sharing. I do not think that they are full automated bots. But I am pretty sure that seregaxx, FedorZaysev, Samanta81, IPushMyPrius and Emper0r at least work/worked together or are related somehow.
Even though their preflop stats do not seem to match exactly they have a lot of very similar postflop stats and tendencies.



But it could be possible that they are just a training group

Once again thanks to Grethe for providing updated charts.

I only have hands against 5 of those accounts, I dont datamine and only use the very limited resources I have at my disposal from own HEM.

Lets look at 2 stats that are extremly rare for full stacking regs, BB Agg equal to overall Agg. I am not sure if there is a single winning reg that has it, but here we have it for 5 out 5 accounts in my DB.



The other super rare stat is 3bet equal to sqz, once again its 5 out 5.



I dont have hands for the other guys but I bet all of my Schweine bacon they will fit the description.

Schweine, you can't receive pm's. You wrote in your OP that you found 10+ accounts but only posted those that played daily. Can you pm the sn of the others somehow (a friend of yours might have a account with more posts?) ?