10/25 live plo 6 handed 1500 effective
H: otb
KsQcJcTh
V: MP
aggro younger guy w high cbet freq

V opens 100 H calls
Flop AcQd7s(235)
X x
Turn 5d
V pots 250(rounded up to the nearest BB) H calls
River Ax(735)
V quickly bets 350 H?

No.


Stakes too high for a button 3b?

Turn peel seems like a massive mistake to me, with 6 nut outs getting 2:1.

High CBET frequency players in fishy games bluff A high boards down all the time.

Or if he was polarized to nuts, which isn’t true, but you think he will keep betting and call off a shove or minraise when you make Broadway with his set it’s profitable provided you can pay attention to his triple barrel, double barrel, and bet sizing tendencies to guess well

When the pfraiser - particularly one with a high c-bet frequency - checks an ace-high board OOP, it's likely not to c/f but to c/c or c/r, particularly with these stack sizes.

When he bets the turn and this particular river, especially quickly, it's unlikely he's taken the decision to forgo the showdown value of a Q, and given you haven't bet or raised at any point and therefore your range is effectively capped at A7 but more reasonably a bare A, he can bet quite wide for value.

Flop check is fine given para 1, would normally bet with these stack sizes. Turn call is ok but not great without the flush draw, you're calling more to have it be checked down than for you to hit. Given you haven't hit, he's now bet, and the above, you're completely toast against his range.

his lines weird but urs is just bad. 3b pre after that you can play hand many ways but i wouldn't advise check flop to bluff catch later with this type of hand... kinda doesn't line up logically with what you are expecting him to play. If you think he's c/giving up a lot OTF than just bet OTF with a wide range which this would be included in. If you think he's trapping/putting strong hands in checking range than dont call down. If he's balanced than this is probably even a fold OTT tbh.

I agree I dont like my line leading up to the river and i ended up in a spot really shouldnt have been in. Plan never was to bluff catch later on with this hand, I was thinking this guy is aggro enough to bet into me if i hit IP. He just has a lot more draws in his range than slow plays when he pots it after checking the flop. Then the offsuit ace river hit and it dawned on me that this may be the only unimproved card I might think about bluff catching on. Esp on a board I generally wouldn't consider bluff catching worse than trips. I did end up calling and he proudly showed the 6644ds. Hindsight I certainly wouldve played the hand differently 3b pre cbet the flop and not end up in this unusual spot.

This means he is good and thought you were a good enough hand reader to lay yours down.

These threads always end up being brag threads

Meh, you need brag threads to balance out the deluge of "omg I lost what could I have done differently" threads.

Hdhdhd

fold wtf/ 3b pre

Overwhelming responses of 3b pre, I haven't played this high live in awhile so IDK but I believe this hand is optimally almost always a call preflop at 60bb deep and it's not even really close at all to 3b? (Yes I know it's live poker but I mean, very common/simple preflop spot at 10/25? So wouldn't it be Stakes too low for a button 3b?)

idk this thread has me so rattled i'm gonna go retire to SSPLO

PREFLOP:
You could 3bet pre or flat in position, I think either is fine given the stack depth. Against an aggro player that's likely to 4bet I would probably just flat.

FLOP:
When he checks the flop he's polarizing himself pretty hard to top set, weak ace xxx (I think he leads this <50%) or air. Given that you flatted the button in position pre with that hand, I imagine you have a pretty tight image at the table. Given his aggro nature and your table image, he would lean heavily towards leading any decently strong Axxx (like AK45), any top pair+ gutter+BDFD, middle pair +gutter+BDDFD etc. So that, to me, leaves most of his range as middling rundowns (2-J), double paired hands, and some weird double suited/single suited, somewhat connected hands like KQ43 or QT86.

Turn lead is suspect given that he didn't lead the flop. He can still have top set or top two in his range and betting big to protect. Given his aggro nature, it's more likely he has a drawing hand and he's trying to force you off your equity. This turn also hits a lot of his middling rundowns for big wraps+FD's and he'll try to move you off one pair+non-nutted FD's. It's a bit dangerous of a bet for that sizing IMO because you could easily have checked back weak Axxx on a dry board like that and picked up two pair on turn, which you're never folding.
I don't mind a call here on turn (slightly prefer fold) but you're committing yourself to calling on river when FD bricks, board pairs, or straight is not made, which is about 40% of outcomes, I'm estimating. If it's a 7 or 5 board pairing card it's an insanely tough call when he leads river.

RIVER:
River is your gin card IMO (other than maybe a Q). Very unlikely he has AAxx now, and even top two extremely unlikely since you have a Q. If you're not calling his river lead >80% of the time, your turn call is terrible. His river bet is very polarized to the nuts or nothing. When he snap leads, I think it's more likely to be air rather than value because you have a Q blocker so he's very unlikely to have nut boat or quads. From his point of view, if he has worst Axxx boat or 5's full, he'd take a little longer to think about sizing and how much to bet to get value from worse.

I don't think the way you played this hand is particularly bad or good. I would have maybe 3bet pre or bet flop but after you played pre and flop the way you did, I think you played fine.

3K, 3J, 3T is 9 outs. He also has implied odds.

You are completely correct, the hand is definite 3b ds, but a non K suit and especially the QJcc together place the hand into an always only call.

flushes beat straights

dont think aggro younger guy who cbets a lot in a live plo game isn't opening enough that this is a bad 3b. dont play 60bb deep much but I don't see why passive lines would be more beneficial

Because we would have to 3bet/fold at 60 bb.

i mean i wouldnt 3b/fold. prob 40% equity and u need like 35%. hes prob 4bing like 10-15% of the time too so i mean not a very big part of decision tree.

3! this particular hand is awkward both because of 60bb stack and 4xbb open instead of 3.5x or smaller

Against gto opponent at 100bb call is preferred, against more aggro and out of line opponents is a great 3!.. a little less great against light 4!bettors though

Tbh not sure we even want this particular hand in our flatting range with these dynamics because i'm not confident we can call a squeeze.. short stack (mid stacks?) experts might have a better take

I think i might prefer a slightly undersized 3! in the 2.75 - 3x territory that lets us fold to a squeeze from the blinds and maybe aggro opener - if we think he is wide enough raise/gii is fine too

is this whole thread a troll?

Lol. Why get complicated when you're dead every time? What's he asking? Is the Q a bluff catcher? Lol.