These days, most hands are not interesting to me. But I am still thinking about this one.

The game is 1-2 blinds w/ $5 bring in and the straddle on every hand. So really, its 5-10 PLO and the effective stacks are $1k.

Nine handled and I limp A988 in late-middle or early-late position (I do not really remember, I am one of the last actors post flop). Six or seven other people limp. To be clear, this is a marginal limp and those arguing for a fold are not wrong. But for me in this game, I am pretty sure its +EV to see a flop.

Anyway, flop is AT2, and it is checked to me. I bet $50 into $70. Three or four people call and we see a 9 on the turn.

Checked to me who is now last to act. First truly interesting spot in the hand IMO. What do you do? Fire again or check?

I decided to bet again, I am pretty confident that I have the best hand. I bet $250 into like $270 or $320 (again I dont remember).

One caller. He is pretty lose and willing to gamble. My read on him is fairly passive but just blindly potting the nuts (maybe the once in a blue moon trap; but blindly potting the nuts is not really a bad strategy in this game...). He is pretty loose and a wealthy recreational player.

River is the 7. Villian leads for pot (puts like all his colored chips out there, $2k+). What I do not know, like at all, is his bluffing range or frequency / tendency, etc. I think he is capable of it, but don't know much more than that.

I am rather convinced at this point that he has a straight (J8, or 68) or a missed draw like always. In other words, he like never shows up with better given how he played the hand unless its a straight. Keep in mind, I have two 8s.

Call or Fold?

You answered yourself. Villain blindly pots the nuts. Now fold.

Fold pre. Check the flop.

If you're going to play it, then pot it. Your hand plays much better that way.

Why in god's name would you bet flop?

Turn actually is fine to bet if you think people will just get in AT here.

River easy fold.

I'm confused why this is the one hand that has you confused.

Yes, so clearly the nuts are in his range. The question is, whats the distribution. Just because he can have the nuts does not mean that he cannot also have a bluff...

I'd have potted pre w/ the NFD.

I bet the flop as a value bet.

IDK if river is an easy fold. It really doesn't make a lot of sense for him to have J8 or 68 in his hand. They are like danglers for the other half of this hand...like maybe KQ68 or something.

The straight is runner runner. And I have two 8s. If he has a better hand than me, it has an 8 in it...

You are beat too often so just fold. Fold pre dude. Seriously.

Yeah. Maybe.

Why do you think a 9 high suit plays better multiway than an A high suit?

Wat? We lose to AT

With top pair into a field of seven players?

I am not judging, as in I dont mean anything by this. But I find it interesting that that is your take away from what I have written.

I don't think it plays better multiway. I think my hand is more or less **** and I dont want to put 7 - 10% of my stack out there. In fact, while I hate this, I would probably have limp - folded to a real raise. IDK, maybe I would have called $20 - 30.

Basically, I have position and i am the best player at the table. That is the only reason I am seeing a flop.

I am basically assuming that nobody has AT at this point in the hand.

Its pretty reasonable. Not bet the flop or the turn. I am either last to act (on the turn) or second to last (on the flop).

So turn w/ A9 is a VB.

Not only do I have the best pair possible...but I have a flush draw. And position. And everyone's calling range is quite wide.

It is a value bet.

I prefer dumping this pre. Like players this bad just give it away to us when we flop pure, so we might as well play hands that do this for us. But I’ve always found these games to be a discussion point; I’ve opted for “smash or dash” with good hands where I either flop huge and Pound, or don’t.

Flop bet is debatable. It doesn’t really work as value or a bluff. There’s the benefit of getting some mediocre draws to call once or cleaning up bare J hi hearts, and this does give us turn options.

Turn is a for sure bet. And bet big. Besides an 8, the 9 is the best card we can see, as I would’ve expected all hands beating us to have been more aggressive on the flop. QJT May call a large bet now too with just 7 outs, and hands like that likely feature in the masses. I might have just potted it TBH but I don’t hate near pot.

Toughie on the river. It’s actually good to have the 8h IMO because hands that beat you, I’d imagine are often heart flush draws with J8 or 86. I think I’d call this one off, but I don’t like it

Hands like this are why I prefer playing tighter. The big mistakes in these games are made when facing aggression, not giving aggression, so I’d much rather be aggressive with confidence and gusto versus facing high variance 200 bb decisions as a call.

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Unlike most people I play this hand pre... can't be bad to fold though.
i dont bet flop with this hand into 7 people.... its kinda bizarre you think that's standard. after that i play it the same and call river. I expect a lot of bluffs to show up here.

Just because you have two eights doesn't mean it's impossible for villain to have one (52 card deck). I agree with everyone else in the thread. Your fd is not very good when so many people see flop so it's not a value bet (wtf at it being one anyway).

The blocker effect isn't actually that strong and he still has many many combos of hands with a straight. I really don't think people bluff here very often.

Even if preflop call is fine (I don't think it is but it's close) the fact we can end up making a 200bb++ mistake on river shows how much our error compounds. Your flop and turn bets are really questionable and now we are playing guessing game on river.

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I dont think its standard. I would not yell at anyone for checking (nor folding pre). But I bet $50 into $70. I win the pot fairly often. And I am called by worse fairly often. Its an easy bet fold to a CR.

There are really no hard decisions with this line (at least on the turn). I hve position.

This is a good post, I basically agree. Its an easy game. No need to push the high variance edges. Obviously, I almost folded pre.

Thanks, I think this is a good post.

If you think it's ****, fold. If you think it's good enough to raise, play it in a way that makes you most money. Without the NFD, your hand plays way worse multiway. Either your hand and skill edge is big enough to raise, or it's not, and you should just fold.

This is not necessarily the case in every situation and every hand, but with this hand here I would say yes.

I respect this and believe that certain styles of play can make this hand (almost any hand in fact) profitable.

But, for that to be true it takes a REALLY good player. Like best in the world. Plus some really BAD players in there with you. And thats a lot to ask for.

And if you're that good, then why wouldn't you wanna pot to make the pot bigger?

im no expert but i believe i'd like to check the flop. as played as a flop bet, on the the turn, i would actually check back and try to get to cheap showdown. not many good rivers imo. but what do i know???

The fundamental theorem of poker is a pretty solid north star.