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High Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 2/4 and above pot-limit Omaha poker

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Old 06-10-2021, 09:03 PM   #26
InkyPoker
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Re: Was I dumb to run it twice on these hands

lol 2017.

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#8 - This is the only one I'm not sure I agree with. Why would you run it twice to likely chop so he can lose his chips to someone else at the table and then leave? Wouldn't you want to just scoop his chips right there or he wins and you rebuy and have a good chance to get your chips and his chips back?
It's more complicated in reality, because people play differently at different stacks and it also affects how other play. It's possible that a player staying will cause others to play worse, and it can also stop a better player from sitting down etc. Generally though I wouldn't base my decision around this too much.

I don't think it's wrong to choose how many times to run it based on circumstances, but I find it easier to stick to 1 choice just so other people don't find it confusing and avoid conflict.

While generally it doesn't affect the EV of our decision making, people don't all play poker for EV, and it can make people unhappy if their ability to run it twice gets hampered. Are they justified in being unhappy? No, but, idk, it doesn't cost much to be nice here.

And as mentioned, people might play worse and/or be happier less stressed when they play knowing whether they will be able to run it twice. If they thought you were going to run it twice and then you say no, they might be upset and, hey, that's reasonable I think. Like I said, not everyone just cares about EV. It makes them feel better to have some idea of what's going to happen. As such I tend to make it clear ahead of time if I won't run it twice, especially as I generally do.
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:19 PM   #27
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Re: Was I dumb to run it twice on these hands

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Originally Posted by InkyPoker View Post
lol 2017.



It's more complicated in reality, because people play differently at different stacks and it also affects how other play. It's possible that a player staying will cause others to play worse, and it can also stop a better player from sitting down etc. Generally though I wouldn't base my decision around this too much.

I don't think it's wrong to choose how many times to run it based on circumstances, but I find it easier to stick to 1 choice just so other people don't find it confusing and avoid conflict.

While generally it doesn't affect the EV of our decision making, people don't all play poker for EV, and it can make people unhappy if their ability to run it twice gets hampered. Are they justified in being unhappy? No, but, idk, it doesn't cost much to be nice here.

And as mentioned, people might play worse and/or be happier less stressed when they play knowing whether they will be able to run it twice. If they thought you were going to run it twice and then you say no, they might be upset and, hey, that's reasonable I think. Like I said, not everyone just cares about EV. It makes them feel better to have some idea of what's going to happen. As such I tend to make it clear ahead of time if I won't run it twice, especially as I generally do.
I didn't want to start a new thread for something which I'm sure has been discussed, so this was the most recent one i found

In this particular case, there weren't any factors other than the specific winning/losing outcome probabilities. They were convinced running it twice to give more chances to get free-rolled is far worse decision to running it once. I tried to explain RIT only reduces variance, they vehemently disagreed.
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Old 06-10-2021, 10:22 PM   #28
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Re: Was I dumb to run it twice on these hands

Okay. So poker players are stupid and bad at maths. What's new? Is this really a "high stakes plo" question? It's literally basic maths.

The only notable exception is when you run it twice in a multiway pot where you only run it twice if one of the 2 players agreeing to run it twice wins the first pot, then the two of you run it twice between the two of you, which is done in some places. That changes EV.
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Old 06-14-2021, 09:07 AM   #29
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Re: Was I dumb to run it twice on these hands

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Originally Posted by BulltexasATM View Post
Overall good post but:

#8 - This is the only one I'm not sure I agree with. Why would you run it twice to likely chop so he can lose his chips to someone else at the table and then leave? Wouldn't you want to just scoop his chips right there or he wins and you rebuy and have a good chance to get your chips and his chips back?

Running it twice doesn't affect my equity so I always let my opponents choose because I really don't care, but using your above rules #8 is the only one I thought might need to be rethought.
Depends if his seat gets filled up by someone tough or not. If there's a list of bad players waiting, then sure, bust him. If there's tough players waiting to get in, then maybe not as good. And if he scoops you, he could just lose that money to someone else too, so the same logic applies running it once.

Whether or not he loses the money to me or someone else is fine, I just want the seat filled by a bad player.
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Old 06-14-2021, 01:25 PM   #30
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Re: Was I dumb to run it twice on these hands

Whatever happened to keeping the vibe friendly? (Which I think RIT is better for.)

And all this talk of doing things to tilt other players...sigh. There are people who are less likely to come back if they sense this is your M.O.

There's still room to be a good person and win in poker...I think.
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Old 06-15-2021, 02:14 PM   #31
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Re: Was I dumb to run it twice on these hands

Generally agree with MIB and TomCollins' summaries. In reality it's hard to balance all those considerations in the moment and I try not to look like a jerk, so what it boils down to for me is I always run it once against short stackers and nits, because **** those guys.

There is one other specific scenario I'll mention, which is dealing with a table captain LAG / maniac in a loose game. If a lot of hands are going 3-5 ways to the flop in limped, straddle or single-raised pots, this player loves to bomb it and either steal pots, or get heads up and run it multiple times. To him, the dead money and fold equity are enough of an overlay to risk getting it in bad and try to build up a stack. This type of player is generally making huge mistakes in the process, but is also capable of building up a huge stack and absolutely wrecking players in a capped buy-in game. The feeling of being able to run it twice may be part of what allows him to get out of line (even though it's wrong, LDO). If he knows you'll only run it once, he may not get so out of line when you're in the pot, particularly if you're both deep. Whether you want him to back off is dependent on how you want to play, how others in the game are playing, whether he is likely to break other bad players who are more passive and force you to come ride his variance train if you want to get the money, etc. On the other hand, sometimes he makes everyone play worse, sometimes you are deep, well-rolled and happy to take him on, etc. So how you approach this is about preference and meta-game considerations. Same thing if you happen to get multiple guys like this in the game who are bombing it and running it 2 or 3 times while chopping up all the dead money.
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Old 06-16-2021, 05:18 PM   #32
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Re: Was I dumb to run it twice on these hands

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Originally Posted by ham on rye View Post
Generally agree with MIB and TomCollins' summaries. In reality it's hard to balance all those considerations in the moment and I try not to look like a jerk, so what it boils down to for me is I always run it once against short stackers and nits, because **** those guys.

There is one other specific scenario I'll mention, which is dealing with a table captain LAG / maniac in a loose game. If a lot of hands are going 3-5 ways to the flop in limped, straddle or single-raised pots, this player loves to bomb it and either steal pots, or get heads up and run it multiple times. To him, the dead money and fold equity are enough of an overlay to risk getting it in bad and try to build up a stack. This type of player is generally making huge mistakes in the process, but is also capable of building up a huge stack and absolutely wrecking players in a capped buy-in game. The feeling of being able to run it twice may be part of what allows him to get out of line (even though it's wrong, LDO). If he knows you'll only run it once, he may not get so out of line when you're in the pot, particularly if you're both deep. Whether you want him to back off is dependent on how you want to play, how others in the game are playing, whether he is likely to break other bad players who are more passive and force you to come ride his variance train if you want to get the money, etc. On the other hand, sometimes he makes everyone play worse, sometimes you are deep, well-rolled and happy to take him on, etc. So how you approach this is about preference and meta-game considerations. Same thing if you happen to get multiple guys like this in the game who are bombing it and running it 2 or 3 times while chopping up all the dead money.

Forgot one other consideration. Running it twice in a time game sucks because it costs you money to do. Can easily add a minute or two on the pot.

If I'm in a super soft game, I'll do whatever the other guy wants, no reason to make it confrontational and want to keep them happy to come back. As a for-profit player in a weak game, I'm there to keep them happy and having a good time. So I always try to err on the side of making them happy. Except if that player is bad for the game - if it's a nit or another for-profit player, more likely to do what they want. But what you can do is offer to bring it up or just keep quiet. I generally will keep quiet about it unless I feel strongly about wanting to run it twice for reasons mentioned above. If I keep it quiet, I don't have to be a jerk to run it once and kill the game.

Forgot one other reason to run it twice as well, if a good game is shorthanded and busting a player can bust the game, I'm more likely to run it twice.

Another reason to run it once is "match the stack" games, where if you lose, you can rebuy the big stack. This is nice to run it once, you either win and get the big stack, or you lose and can rebuy a lot more.

It's so nice to play in Texas and not have to worry about capped buyin games, where it's almost always match the stack or uncapped.
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Old 06-20-2021, 06:59 AM   #33
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Re: Was I dumb to run it twice on these hands

At the start of a session, I let everybody know that I always propose and always accept to RIT. The reason is obvious: it encourages vilains to go all in against me. This is profitable since as a tight player I have the goods more often than not.
Another reason is that RIT reduce the variance (and the luck factor) which IMO is beneficial to good regulars or pro players.
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Old 06-21-2021, 07:41 AM   #34
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Re: Was I dumb to run it twice on these hands

For anyone that likes to see opponents cards before deciding how many times to run it…

Poker bros lets you see villains hand before deciding.
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