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HU PLO400 River question HU PLO400 River question

07-06-2013 , 09:05 AM
First time playing PLO so this might be a super standard call I just wasn't sure. Feel free to criticize any part of the hand please.

Villain plays pretty solid this is about 45 minutes in the session. He barrells a lot if he has no shodown value and the board gets ugly I have caught him in a twice or so. He views me as the PLO fish that I am

Hero ($620) is BB
Villain ($750) is SB

Hero is dealt KQ89

Hero raises to 8
Villain raises to 20
Hero calls 12

Flop is 1046

(Pot is 40)
Villain bets 30
Hero calls 30

Turn 2

(Pot is 100)
Villain checks
Hero checks

River 5

Villain checks
Hero bets 80
Villain raises to 250
Hero?
HU PLO400 River question Quote
07-06-2013 , 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by soylent_gr33n
First time playing PLO so this might be a super standard call I just wasn't sure. Feel free to criticize any part of the hand please.

Villain plays pretty solid this is about 45 minutes in the session. He barrells a lot if he has no shodown value and the board gets ugly I have caught him in a twice or so. He views me as the PLO fish that I am
Dont think hes trying to bluff you off a flush
HU PLO400 River question Quote
07-06-2013 , 11:20 AM
if we fold with this hand in this spot, we basically fold everything but the nuts against a barrel-happy/aggressive player. his line looks pretty bluffy and therefore is less likely to be a bluff by a good player imo, but i still think it is mandatory to call him here. otherwise we should c/behind.
HU PLO400 River question Quote
07-06-2013 , 11:31 AM
I probably should have included that in the description, He commented in the chate before how strong some of the hands were I checked behind on the river.(i just dont feel confident value betting thin in plo yet). So wouldnt that make him more likely to take a bet bet line against me with nuts or second nuts than rely on me to bet and therefore make this a call?
HU PLO400 River question Quote
07-06-2013 , 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by soylent_gr33n
I probably should have included that in the description, He commented in the chate before how strong some of the hands were I checked behind on the river.(i just dont feel confident value betting thin in plo yet). So wouldnt that make him more likely to take a bet bet line against me with nuts or second nuts than rely on me to bet and therefore make this a call?
agree with that. but he should also realize that his line looks bluffy; generally solid players don´t bluff with a fishy line against someone they consider to be a fish...

i didn´t want to post it, because it´s generally bad poker to think that way, but even if he did slowplay the nutflush, it would have cost you about the same amount compared to a normal line from him, probably less.

that should not be the reason to call him though; imo the main reason is to avoid getting exploited by a villain who is surely capable of exploiting passiveness/scared money. if we fold in this spot, we basically will fold everything and shouldn´t be betting then in the first place, but c/behind. this is incredibly weak imo. he knows you basically never have the nuts due to your turn c/behind. if you always fold in spots like that, you will not be able to valuebet rivers somewhat thinly and give him a very easy bluff in such spots.

villain doesnt seem to be someone to be too afraid of though; berating the "fish" for not valuebetting thinly enough in chat during a HU match is probably not all that common in top sharks

edit: his chat comment could easily mean though that since you are not valuebetting enough, and probably never have the nuts, you could easily just be bluffing in this spot, but bluffing with the best hand since he might have missed that board completely. thinking that, he might assume that you fold everything but the nuts anyway and he could get away with a good %raise otr with his total misses like AKQ9 and similar hands w/out SDV. that´s what is going on here most of the time imo.
so many reasons to call and not really much to fold. i am a callingstation though...
HU PLO400 River question Quote
07-07-2013 , 03:23 AM
yet another spot where folding is ridiculously exploitable but you poss still should. his comment goes both ways - yes, it makes him less likely to chk to you nutted, but it also makes him view your betting range as stronger than avg. the read that he barrels a lot w/o showdown value is also pretty relevant since he didnt bet either turn or riv. its also slightly more likely that he will go for a value c/r on a card that completes multiple straights and thus gives you some potential non flushes in your value range, although i guess if he thinks you dont vbet thinly that becomes at least somewhat nullified. who knows, though, maybe he thinks his comment mightve made you determined to prove him wrong or something and show up here with a 73/78 vbet. he'll also presumably have an above avg amount of Ah*h/Kh*h as opposed to nut/second nut blockers given he 3bpf.
idk, all i can come up with are reasons to fold but it does leave you so open to being exploited that calling obv cant be bad in a larger sense. i prob call if its on a eurosite and fold if its on ftp/stars.
HU PLO400 River question Quote
07-07-2013 , 09:23 AM
I'm betting the turn 100/100 I think. This is the perfect card to be bluffing a lot with random pairs/straight-draws, so Im lowering my 2street treshold for valuebets (hence betting turn and river).

About the river, I would think he's betting a whole lot with his flushes, considering you have a pretty wide range of decent hands, and show a history of checking most of them behind. Hence, I'm bet/calling. On the other hand, I would expect him to bluff a lot with blockers on the turn, so he might be on complete blanks with some showdown value on the turn. Meh, probably thinner to b/c after all..
HU PLO400 River question Quote
07-07-2013 , 11:24 PM
Not betting turn is a serious mistake

call river in general, because flushes are good hands. He might be barreling most of his air OTT, so you also might have a spot where you own him by folding (such a situation would argue for a turn b/f, too, but folding flushes in 3bet pots is not something I do, really)
HU PLO400 River question Quote
07-07-2013 , 11:50 PM
jam river
HU PLO400 River question Quote
07-09-2013 , 11:04 AM
insta cal, don't jam
HU PLO400 River question Quote
07-11-2013 , 04:00 AM
Honestly: If you don´t know how to react to a c/r in this spot after playing him 45min (you have big info advantage compared to the readers of the post - ) how should we know better then you) it seems you doin something wrong.

Folding here is highly exploitable (you essentially have your best hand as i assume you bet at least K high flush on turn) and i personally wouldn´t like to do it unless i have enough infos i collected in last 45min to get away with it.
HU PLO400 River question Quote
07-18-2013 , 05:10 AM
I'd call if your opponent thinks you'll value bet then fold a straight. Or if you're normally playing your flushes more aggressive on the turn.
HU PLO400 River question Quote
07-24-2013 , 07:53 AM
tough spot
HU PLO400 River question Quote
07-27-2013 , 12:17 AM
After you check back the turn, I couldn't find a fold. Even though he will have a weirdly played nuts a lot based on the description. Checking the turn makes no sense though.
HU PLO400 River question Quote
07-27-2013 , 01:42 AM
Snap call. Such a silly line if villain does have the nuts. I'd expect to see nut flush blocker more often than nut flush here.
HU PLO400 River question Quote
07-27-2013 , 05:54 AM
Raise flop
HU PLO400 River question Quote

      
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