Hey all,

Curious to hear your thoughts,

Later on in the session, I've been playing pretty snug, one of the guys was keeping track of VPIP, i was the lowest. I've mostly been playing in position.

Earlier there was a hand where one of the players went off on how tight i was and how i never bluff, the whole table talked about it. I raised pot over a river bet on a 993QT board. I took it down without showing.

Hero $5000
Villain $3750

Hand is straddled to $10, 2nd "tightest"player raises to $35, I 3bet to $135 OTB with QJTT double suited, folded around to original raiser, he 4bets pot to $375, I call, HU to the flop.

Flop 347 rainbow, Villain leads $700 with $2600 back. (I've got two BD flush draws)

How often do you think he folds if I pot ?

FYI, I did 3 bet him earlier OTB with 7653 double suited (maybe an hour earlier), he folded and I showed everyone said something about it.

In several of my other posts I talk about being in position without the initiative. He is going to be deep out of position with the initiative and that is going to suck for him the entire hand. Of course the pot will be tiny, but oh well, when I think back to almost every single big pot I play over the course of a month I usually have an ace in my hand. When you were describing the preflop action and you said, "the second tightest player raised", I was surprised to see you re-raised with QJTT/ds, your 7653/ds was better in terms of not worrying about straight domination. A 7653 non-nut straight is a lot less likely to be dominated than a QJTT non-nut straight heads up against a tight player. With QJTT/ds I would have just called the raise preflop and gone to the flop...

In position without the initiative

Kinda f'ing hard to make a non-nut straight with QJTT tbh. I mean, you can, but kinda f'ing hard.



As far as the hand goes I think 3b or flat doesn't even matter much money wise. Fold flop. Serious FPS trying to **** around vs that bet size

It was a conceptual point often lost on most. The risk of domination in those queen, jack or ten high hands (be it no pair or one pair) is real. OP talked about two hands, QJTT and 7653, I simply pointed to the 7653 being safer, but that many overplay the QJTT type hands.

Jnandez is a scarf butthole, however he does try and hit home the risk of domination in those queen, jack and ten high hands. Part of the domination also is you getting free-rolled where your opponent has the same current straight but higher side cards to make a better future straight.

Raising flop would be ginormous spew. Villain has plenty of aaxx with some connection to the flop and is not folding, plus you can jam worse than straight.

A pot sized four bet would be more in the $420 range. Anyway, we should go ahead and fold the flop. I'm not entirely sold on the three bet, but we are missing a lot of key details to evaluate that decision. Like number of players at the table, stack sizes of the blinds, player profile of the blinds. Probably we want to just flat and keep the fish in the blinds in (it's live plo so usually there are 8 or 9 fish at the table).

You have so little equity when called. I like your 3b at this depth and the facts he’s ready to stack off here makes your call of the 4b very high EV

I misread the hand at first. It's player dependent so you have to decide based on your experience with the player/your perceived image what is best. I think there are much better boards to attack his unbalanced range tbh though so this one seems like a little bit of a stretch IMO or you're attacking too much I think and he will adjust quickly/will be incredibly bad when he does adjust. 367r for example is much easier to have a range that can attack vs him pretty relentlessly vs 347r for example even though it doesnt seem like it. The way I would attack a board like 347r where I have a weaker range this deep would be to flat also with my whole range and try to put him in a bad spot later not shove here.

Always rep the 7653 bruh

you went on and on about non nut straights with qj1010

with 2 tens in your hand you're also a ton less likely to get free rolled on straights plus you have 2 flush draws.

yes the flop could come 9jk/89j and he could have the unlikely aq10,kq10 and have a 4 out freeroll

any straight you make with the jq if he has a higher straight draw you have a set and you'll be the one with more equity

it's also really easy to be dominated against anyone good 4 betting when you have 7653 ds deep
people tend to always assume the other guy has aces and any staight or flush draw is good which is fine shallower and often very costly deep

Live poker is a style game. There is more than one style that can win at live PLO. With a stack size of 200bb or less who really gives a crap how you play. But man oh man I regularly see some crazy plays for 500bb+ deep.

I could fake post a hand on 2+2 right now, it does matter the hand, it doesn't matter the position, it doesn't matter the stack size and at least 75% of the responses will be some form of...

Get it in, bet, or 3-bet

Just to add some balance to the universe, my responses are often in the hold up wait a minute range.

Preflop seems fine to me.

Postflop it looks he is gonna have AAxx an overwhelming majority of the time and I highly doubt he will fold any of those on 743r, especially after choosing that sizing (I'm assuming he made it $375 preflop although the "4 bets pot" line is confusing). Even if you "never bluff", he has pot odds to call naked AAxx with no bdfd/bdsd if you show him 2pair face up.

The answer is that occasionally yes you do need stuff it as a bluff with 12% perceived nut equity with set and double backdoors. When and who to do it against is a player and image based decisions. If this is the first time he has 4b in a session OOP ever then yes he has AA and as discussed your range includes aloe plus draw when jamming given SPR pre

Has no one spent any time with solvers at all in this forum? QJTT is an auto 3 bet 100% of the time and always calls 4 bet. Flatting this hand leads to more domination scenarios.

What solver/spot are you using GreatBigRedOne?

QJJTds is not a 100% 3bet even in BTN v UTG 6 max in monker... and OP didn't give positions but live PLO is often 9 max so I assume it most certainly would not be there

Yeah your right, should have spent the 20 seconds to actually look it up. QJJTds doesn't 3b 100% until btn vrs co in 6 max. I went from memory and clearly made an error.

I assumed its wasn't utg as most people remember and state UTG or UTG+1 when relaying a hh so was a mid-later position. I also understood it to be a homegame with players that are not very good based on the VPIP commentary and usually these are played 6 to 9 handed with 8 handed being the norm, so my reasoning was btn vrs mp in an 8 handed vrs ranges that are wider than monker so I dont think the comment actually missed the mark by that much even though my monker ranges were indeed off.

Ya fair enough, fwiw I also posted that preflop is fine given the situation. It's also good to note there are some players who are really bad and will have way too much AAxx in their opening range because they limp so much. It's player specific but here we have the info that this guy folded last time and could very likely be overfolding so I would think 3-betting him could maybe be even better. Would need more info