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Old 11-07-2011, 08:55 AM   #1
Doorbread
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Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

Writing this post wah post here because this forum has helped me grow as a person as much as a poker player and is filled with people whom I respect and admire. I've been thinking about doing this for awhile and have been hesitant to in fear of being thought of in this light, but I don't know where else to turn.

I've hit a bump in the road in life and I'm having a hard time getting over the hump and moving forward. Financially, I'm broke. I'm indebted 60k (90k below EV) to my backers and we're very poor at communicating with each other. The last time I played poker was two or so months ago where I was given a 2/2 roll which I ran up to 20k in 2 weeks, before crashing and burning at higher stakes. Before that I hadn't played poker for another three months. It looks like I'm getting another 2/2 roll within a few days so I have that to look forward to, but 60k in makeup feels like a daunting, impossible amount to overcome at 2/2.

I've stopped coaching for the time being because I'm unable to receive funds. Paypal shut down my account because they questioned why I was receiving funds from various countries, and I foolishly told them the truth. The 120 days that they hold your funds for after freezing an account is up however, and I will be giving the $1,200 that was inside it to my mom who is in financial distress herself and who I've been freeloading off of since I busto'd. Moneybookers has been looking over my account for over a month now in which I've sent them many e-mails anxiously asking, "When? Are we there yet? How about now?"

For the last three or fourish months (whenever people left Vegas this summer) I've been home wallowing in my own misery, without motivation to do anything. I haven't seen the light of day or spoken to anyone outside of my family. I'm scared to. I wake up at varying hours of the day, I do nothing, and hope that I'm able to fall asleep as soon as I can. My health is deteriorating, and my esteem is nonexistent. Thoughts of taking my life constantly flood my mind, but the hopes for a greater pasture keep the former from taking shape ; Eventually tho, somethings gotta give.

I'm sure people here have had similar experiences and lived more life than myself and am just hoping for someones words to resonate with me, to push me in the right direction. I don't know what step to take, and I don't know if I'm ready to take them. I'm just tired of being who I am and hope to find the tools to grow.

-db

Last edited by Doorbread; 11-07-2011 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:13 AM   #2
acehole60
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

Sorry to hear that, db.

I am not sure how your deal works w. your backers, but if I were you, I'd consider going cold turkey and leaving poker altogether.

iirc you're still very young and you're obviously bright. With poker getting increasingly harder, I think that you should consider doing something else with your life (and even if poker was still a walk in the park, you should still consider this): think about what interests you, enroll in an education and enjoy life with all the other broke bums your age who are having the time of their lives drinking, ****ing and partying (and learning, although it doesnt sound as cool).

I know, it may not be the advice you wanted, but it sounds like you're in a god awful place right now and that is not how it is supposed to be; when you're young you should be out there living and enjoying life. Furthermore you want to secure your future. The best way of doing both is going to college.


EDIT: I would also start working out if I were you. Or running or something similar. It really makes a huge difference on your mood and self-confidence.
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:17 AM   #3
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

you're a very good man from what i can tell, i'm very confident that within a few months you have gotten over this bump and back on your feet again. just take baby steps forward, both in poker and other life. change is a long process. go for a run, lift some weights, go out to breath the fresh air.

60k is a chunk of money to be made at 200plo, but hey you gotta start somewhere. you already build it up once (even more times, looking back over longer period of time), just rinse and repeat with solid brm. it won't happen overnight, but it will happen.

gl on your journey...you gotta have faith, keep ya head up

Last edited by napsus; 11-07-2011 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:19 AM   #4
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

You're not even 21 yet.. There are people in their 40's with worst situations than you are in right now. Don't give up and hopefully It will turn around for you eventually.. especially with legalization on the horizon.
As for your current mental situation, I'm pretty sure there will be others here to give good advice, but things that quickly come to my head are just try to leave your house, maybe do some volunteer work, exercise, and anything that makes you happy.
Sitting around all day just makes things worst..
like 50cent said 'Sunny days wouldn't be good if it wasn't for rain"

also You were chilled out kid when we met in Vegas , I look forward to doing EDC with ya again one day. You'll come out of it soon.

good luck
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:26 AM   #5
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

college is def the best advise, and you could play 1/2-2/4 3hrs/day on the side and make like 150-200k/year. when you're in college that's basically infinite money.

while there you might find a passion for a subject/sport/girl and put your life in a whole different direction. it's not a bad thing.

top of your to do list should be to get your health back up. start going running or swimming...even walking for half an hour in the mornings will make you feel better and more productive. starting your days with light/medium exercise will make such a huge difference to your happiness, wellbeing, and desire to achieve.

i'd start by writing down a big list of things you wanna do- within the next week, month, and year. just writing things down like that statistically makes you waaay more likely to do them.

you can literally go anywhere and do anything. so start by doing anything and maybe you'll figure out the things you want.
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:29 AM   #6
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

Expanding on what acehole said, I definately think you should strongly consider college as an option. Its is a great way to meet lifelong friends, have some of the best years of your life, and come out with a degree that can serve as the tool for getting you a job, or simply being a safe back up if you do intend to carry on poker.

I don't think you should necessarily quit poker, but you definitely need other focal points in your life. Getting in shape is a good idea too, it really helps to clear your mind.

good luck on making the money back, you can definately do it but it will take time like napsus said.
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:36 AM   #7
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

I guess, I'll qualify my reply and say that I don't think you should necessarily quit poker while going to college. As Adi and Chuck says, you can play on the side. It just seems like poker has become too much of an obsession/burden for you, so quitting is definitely an option (and maybe the most healthy one for you at this point). That being said, it can definitely work, and has done so for many of us.
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:39 AM   #8
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

dont try to get it back all at once. you're gonna have to be happy making a few hundred a day. its v tough to change to this mindset though. ive lost way more than this, and had gotten depressed too
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:04 AM   #9
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

Hit the gym. Do some squats.
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:17 AM   #10
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

Finally, a post in HS-PLO where I can offer an expert opinion...

You say your mom is in financial distress. Then it seems like a no-brainer to me: you go and get a job.

Yes, I said a job. People in the poker community often underrate zero-variance EV; I'm living proof that it's wonderful stuff.

Having a job isn't as cool, or as flexible, or (necessarily) as interesting as playing poker. I'm pretty sure there aren't forums dedicated to people talking about their gigs at Home Depot and Best Buy.

But that's not the point; the point here is to get your life back on track, clear your head, and dig yourself out of a financial hole.

I was about to say "Swallow your pride and go get a job", but that's wrong; there is no reason to be ashamed about taking a work-a-day job, particularly when it allows you to help support your mom. That's something you'll be proud of for the rest of your life. Far more than winning X BBs at $200 PLO.

I also agree with those suggesting a sabbatical from poker. It got you into a pretty bad place; it's probably a good idea to leave it by the side of the road for a while until you're in a better place.

Also:
  1. Go to community college or some other educational institution. You may discover a new life calling, you may develop marketable skills, you'll challenge your brain. It's just really good for you.
  2. Like others have said, be sure to exercise. Lots of exercise. Get endorphins flowing. Similarly, eat well, avoid Bad Substances. This is all "Sane Living 101" stuff, but it's most crucial when you're at a local minimum.

In short, expand your world view, removing (or at least minimizing) poker for a substantial while. It will still be there if and when you come back.

I won't wish you good luck - luck is the very last thing involved in what you need to do next. I will wish you a clear head and solid focus.

Regards, Lee
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:20 AM   #11
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

hey man. sorry to hear that. but the others are right. you should try to do some sports, eat healthy, meet some friends on a regular basis following similar interests and make a plan with slow steps on how to get back on the road.

from what i know you are a very respected and smart player. i am sure there are other ways to get money through coaching via just "pay pal". this really should not be a problem for a smart kid like you Why not make some videos for poker sites?! i'd think the demand is there!

what would be also a good idea is maybe to team up with a lower stakes plo player who respects your skills and would make a deal. you coach him / you sweat him / you guys have working hours that you pursue and this way it is much more fun, + you socialize and both start making money step by step. i know some ppl who did that and it helped.

or try to make deals visiting some plo players that would be up for something similar. your brain is an asset . and with another person who has the mental mind you need right now, you could get back into the objective poker view (it is not only my decision, but also affects another person's existence, i cannot spew around now, etc...) that is necessary now. it will help get you over the time where tilt is very likely to be consuming you quickly.

you are only 21...

and even if this does not sound too nice - but apart from financial security, this whole experience will have made you richer! it will probably have a very good impact on your personality and view about life, which you might not feel right now. but you will know what i mean when you get older

but of course - if poker just annoys you and you hate chilling alone in front of a PC for a large potion of your life - getting a real job is the only way to get back on track!

regards,

Paul
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:50 AM   #12
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

I think a lot of us have been here. I'm going to repeat what napus said, small steps. I had a period of time where I would basically lie watching tv all day, even though every night I'd go to bed hating it and would think I was desperate to change my life (the next day). I felt like there was a version of me screaming 'get off your ass and DO SOMETHING' the entire day, but I just....couldn't. Took me a while to admit I was depressed.

Anyway long story short there was no magical switch that made me turn it around. I finally forced myself to go for a run a few times. I played a bit of poker. I forced myself to ring friends until I had someone to come over (which forced me to clean my appt!). Gradually things started changing, I was more easily motivated to do certain things and I became happy. I think people will often underestimate how much your happiness depends on what you actually do. That sounds incredibly obvious but when I was in that headspace I felt like I was 'missing' something and my mind was just meant to be depressed, then I found out I was gaining happiness from exercise, sex, good times with friends etc.

I don't know your life situation (or you) so I can't say 'go to college' or anything liek that, and TBH I don't think many could. A lot of people will see something like this and say 'this is definitely the best thing to do. go travelling!' but it might not be the best FOR YOU. All I can say is:

1 - Don't be too proud to seek help
2 - Take it one step at a time.
3 - Remind yourself there are people that care about you.

Things will change.

GL, hopefully you keep us updated
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:51 AM   #13
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

chin up mate.

from your posts you seem like a nice and intelligent guy. do not let this stuff get to you. if you have too much riding on poker it becomes a negative feedback loop where your whole sense of self is defined by your wins, which don't even seem that good anymore.

snap out of it.

take care of yourself. get into a routine of doing something physically active. unlike poker, its 100% up to you and you will see consistent gains.

be social. go read or watch a film with someone. go to a museum. enroll in school. make it a point to meet a new person every day.
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:59 AM   #14
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

Oh and when I say seek help I don't necessarily mean from a psychologist (I never went). Any good friend or close family member will probably be good to talk to.
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:24 AM   #15
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

Lee Jones basically got it covered.

I just want to add with how easy financial aid is to get nowadays, as long as you can prove you have no income to speak of, there is a very good chance you'll be able to go to school for free (I am assuming you didn't file taxes last year) with even a little money coming in to cover your living expenses.

Honestly I'll repeat what I said months ago when you first went broke. You're too young to play poker full time without seeing what else life has to offer.
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:29 AM   #16
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

Quote:
Originally Posted by higher_energy View Post
chin up mate.

from your posts you seem like a nice and intelligent guy. do not let this stuff get to you.
snap out of it.
Not linking you to be a dick, I feel like this comic should be pretty enlightening to anyone who hasn't dealt with anything like this: http://www.akimbocomics.com/?p=573
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:35 AM   #17
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

wtf people he's 60k in the hole from poker, and just spent the last 4 months in his mom's basement not talking to anyone and said he has suicidal thoughts you think he should just buck up/go to school/grind a bit.

YOU NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP. YOU NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP. YOU NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP.

At least Lee Jones was on the right path, getting back into poker is not the right step at the moment. At least getting a job would allow social interaction, get you out of the house, and provide some stream of income. Once you are on some form of a balanced life style then you can THINK about touching poker again. But jumping right back into poker is going to put way too much pressure on your success, you are going to try to make it all back way to quick. Just because you made a bunch of money playing HSPLO at one point doesn't mean that you deserve to be grinding it again, its going to be a slow process to get your life back but its entirely possible.
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:42 AM   #18
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

Sounds like typical depression symptoms, def don't try grinding it all back anytime soon. You need to sort out your mental state, which should involve going to your GP and consider counselling + antidepressants. Like others have said, going to uni/college is almost definitely gonna have a positive impact on your life.

You have the skill set to play poker and make money, but is not necessarily the best thing for you to do at this moment in time.

Like you said in your original post, you are more than likely to be at a really good place in your life at some point, you just need to get on the right track.
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:44 AM   #19
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

Get a part time job at first, start going to the gym daily (even if you only stretch for 20 mins and leave), don't drink anything but water, and forget about poker imo
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:00 PM   #20
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

Btw going to school also gets you mandatory health insurance that's hopefully covered by financial aid. That will help pay for therapy that frankly you really need.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:11 PM   #21
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

You have money @ FT though right Door. When you get your money go straight to Vegas and put it on the favorite in the Superbowl. The favorite always covers on even years for the superbowl. Thats what Im doing . Degens going degen
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:17 PM   #22
Unknown Soldier
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adiprene1 View Post
college is def the best advise, and you could play 1/2-2/4 3hrs/day on the side and make like 150-200k/year. when you're in college that's basically infinite money.

while there you might find a passion for a subject/sport/girl and put your life in a whole different direction. it's not a bad thing.

top of your to do list should be to get your health back up. start going running or swimming...even walking for half an hour in the mornings will make you feel better and more productive. starting your days with light/medium exercise will make such a huge difference to your happiness, wellbeing, and desire to achieve.

i'd start by writing down a big list of things you wanna do- within the next week, month, and year. just writing things down like that statistically makes you waaay more likely to do them.

you can literally go anywhere and do anything. so start by doing anything and maybe you'll figure out the things you want.
I like this advice the best. Just do SOMETHING. Another option is to get a bit of money together and go to somewhere like Thailand for a month or so. Completely mix things up, see a different culture. People are generally pretty happy over there too, it's a nice enviroment. But yeah, you have to do something. Go for a run now.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:21 PM   #23
Lee Jones
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

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Btw going to school also gets you mandatory health insurance that's hopefully covered by financial aid. That will help pay for therapy that frankly you really need.
I was remiss in not mentioning what grizy and others have said. There's a very real chance you're suffering from clinical depression. One does not just "snap out of it"; it's a chemical imbalance. If that's what you're dealing with, then poker will be one-way ticket to hell.

Get to a competent mental health professional and find out if you have depression. There are drugs that are damn near miracle pills for many/most people these days; they will allow you to get back on track with your life.

Regards, Lee
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:37 PM   #24
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

Would really have to disagree strongly with the concept of miracle pills as a cure for depression - I think working things out by changing your environment/ daily routine is a much better idea if you can do it.

I'm not sure pursuing something like online poker at the moment is going to be the best thing for your mindset. Its tough enough when you're not in a fragile mind state. I actually do agree that getting a job/ going to college is going to be the best thing for you. It will boost your self-esteem to be able to help you Mum out and most importantly give yourself a routine to get yourself out of bed in the mornings. You will meet more normal people your age and give you time to re-assess things. I'm not saying quit poker forever - but I don't think its the smart option right now. You are a smart guy and you're not going to have trouble getting a job and working things out from there once you get yourself out of this funk you've got in to.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:55 PM   #25
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Re: Getting my Groove Back (tl;dr)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gavz101 View Post
Would really have to disagree strongly with the concept of miracle pills as a cure for depression - I think working things out by changing your environment/ daily routine is a much better idea if you can do it.

I'm not sure pursuing something like online poker at the moment is going to be the best thing for your mindset. Its tough enough when you're not in a fragile mind state. I actually do agree that getting a job/ going to college is going to be the best thing for you. It will boost your self-esteem to be able to help you Mum out and most importantly give yourself a routine to get yourself out of bed in the mornings. You will meet more normal people your age and give you time to re-assess things. I'm not saying quit poker forever - but I don't think its the smart option right now. You are a smart guy and you're not going to have trouble getting a job and working things out from there once you get yourself out of this funk you've got in to.
Good advice here. Medication should be a last resort... Sounds like you need a change in surroundings.
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