Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

High Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 2/4 and above pot-limit Omaha poker

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-08-2021, 06:15 PM   #1
towery
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 631
Getting lost in a deep multiway spot plo4

I tried using the hand converter, but its struggling and giving internal server error, so forgive my formatting here please.

This hand is at 1.5/3 (.5) 9 handed plo. Its online but plays like a live homegame.

No read on either villain involved here, other than I know button is up about 3k this week and BB is down about 3k this week (so I don't know anything really).

Hero (1062) UTG open to 15 with AhQdJhJs
2 folds
LJ (2657) Calls
HJ (682) Calls
BTN (1223) Calls
1 fold
BB (1650) calls

Flop ($81 5 way) JcTc7h

BB checks
Hero checks
LJ checks
HJ checks
BTN bets 69
BB calls 69
Hero calls 69
2 folds

Turn ($288 3 way) JcTc7h6h

BB checks
Hero checks
BTN bets 288
BB calls 288
Hero (978 total, both villains cover)?
towery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 06:52 PM   #2
ladybruin
old hand
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,991
Re: Getting lost in a deep multiway spot plo4

Everything looks good.

You flopped top set with the nut backdoor flush draw. Unfortunately the flop makes a straight possible, therefore caution against 4 opponents is wise.

If we disregard the HJ's stack size and call you the effective stack size, then the stack to pot ratio is about 13 and you have to take that kind of depth seriously. At SPR 13 a bare middle set would be risky, but you have top set with backup. And your backup is strong, for example, at SPR 13 a king high flush would be uncomfortable, but you flopped the backdoor nut flush draw that you turned nicely.

Check-call flop. Check-call turn.

If on river you make a full house, then bet whatever sizing you think someone will call. If you think someone will call 1/3 pot, but not 1/2 pot, then bet 1/3 pot. If you think someone will call a bigger bet, then bet bigger. But don't bet so big that an opponent with a straight folds. Bet small enough that he feels obligated to call. If you make a full house that also brings a flush, then you can bet a little bit bigger because someone with a flush might feel obligated to call.

If you make a flush the same rules apply, but you can probably bet a little bit bigger than you would with a full house since most people have a hard time folding a flush. Also some people stubbornly don't believe it when a backdoor flush come in. And if you make a flush that brings in more straights, especially the Broadway, then you can bet a little bigger as they might feel obligated to call.

You are right to feel a bit lost at SPR 13. It is full of it depends type judgement decisions. The second nuts like king high flushes or middle sets are a mess to play. Fortunately you have top set and nut flush draw. But fear 13 is 13 wise.

Last edited by ladybruin; 04-08-2021 at 07:22 PM.
ladybruin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 06:57 PM   #3
Alpha Fish
veteran
 
Alpha Fish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,394
Re: Getting lost in a deep multiway spot plo4

bet flop. ap cr flop

bet turn. ap cr turn
Alpha Fish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2021, 02:36 PM   #4
JohnA47
stranger
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 9
Re: Getting lost in a deep multiway spot plo4

Check raise should get out someone with flush clubs draw I call assuming we are slightly behind vs a straight???
JohnA47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2021, 02:29 PM   #5
djevans
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: springfield, VA
Posts: 4,723
Re: Getting lost in a deep multiway spot plo4

C/R flop is probably the best way to continue. We will get called by clubs, wraps, straights, lower sets, maybe 2 pairs. It also sets us up to jam good turns. Easy call it off on the flop with top set, nut gut shot, and back door hearts.

On turn Probably check folding club. Deciding on 8 or 9.

As played C/R turn is the play. We are ahead of flopped straights unless they have a AKQ in their hand.
djevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2021, 07:13 PM   #6
PokerPlayingGamble
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,719
Re: Getting lost in a deep multiway spot plo4

I'm just calling the turn.
PokerPlayingGamble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2021, 01:21 PM   #7
Z06Fanatic1
adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 728
Re: Getting lost in a deep multiway spot plo4

I like calling the turn as well. Seems like BTN will have a lot of 89 here when he could of checked back the turn for a free river, but decided to pot it 3 way.
Z06Fanatic1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2021, 08:31 PM   #8
Darth Sagebrush
newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: out of sight/mind
Posts: 28
Re: Getting lost in a deep multiway spot plo4

Don't bet the turn into the guy (BTN) who is quite likely valuebetting the nuts into the BB (likely fish). Don't checkraise either. Check-fold the river without the nuts. Shove river with the nuts, and expect BTN to fold as he should. Only BB is a candidate to pay you off.

Multiway spots often become much easier to figure out when one villain appears to be a station and the competent-looking other villain is still betting.
Darth Sagebrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2021, 11:53 AM   #9
twotoseven
stranger
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 3
Re: Getting lost in a deep multiway spot plo4

Get it in on turn all day. Embrace the variance
twotoseven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2021, 07:52 PM   #10
djevans
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: springfield, VA
Posts: 4,723
Re: Getting lost in a deep multiway spot plo4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Sagebrush View Post
Don't bet the turn into the guy (BTN) who is quite likely valuebetting the nuts into the BB (likely fish). Don't checkraise either. Check-fold the river without the nuts. Shove river with the nuts, and expect BTN to fold as he should. Only BB is a candidate to pay you off.

Multiway spots often become much easier to figure out when one villain appears to be a station and the competent-looking other villain is still betting.
Why, you're ahead by a few % points if they have a straight. Push the thin edge and having fold equity is great.

You're gonna have to check/fold the river if a Q 9 8 A or club come and they jam. You also won't like a 5 or 4 as other random straights get made.
djevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2021, 10:26 PM   #11
ladybruin
old hand
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,991
Re: Getting lost in a deep multiway spot plo4

Quote:
Originally Posted by djevans View Post
Why, you're ahead by a few % points if they have a straight.
Whoa slow your horses here. It depends. The opponents side cards that go with that straight could also have you down a few points. Either way you are either up a few points or down a few points. UNLESS he crushes you having the straight and two hearts in his hand and one or two of your fullhouse/quad cards. So that sounds like you are about even or occasionally waaaaay behind.

---

The title of this thread includes the word "deep." I think I am the only one that mentioned stack depth or stack to pot ratio. I'm calling a friendly bullcrap on many of the people calling ride the variance roller coaster actually appreciating how insanely huge the bankroll requirements go up.

But the biggest point is if the villian is smart enough to only bet into multiple players with

the straight+ (blockers to someone making a flush or fullhouse/quads)

then you are raising deep while you are behind 45-55 or maybe as bad as 40-60. You are never up that much, but can be down that much. While deep.

Last edited by ladybruin; 04-20-2021 at 10:56 PM.
ladybruin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:06 AM   #12
grant2
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
grant2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,244
Re: Getting lost in a deep multiway spot plo4

If this is like any other plo home game i've been at, the odds of someone having the flopped straight is about 50%

This is a really interesting spot because the hero looks like he could be playing something like AKQx with a pair in his hand. I think his hand is underrepresented.

And I have no idea how to range the BB. He could be trying to deny equity with the nuts. Or he could think he's ahead with something like JTT9x. Or he could be betting his big draw with KQT9cc.

I think the Hero's line looks fine, since he's only going to be scared of 1 villain (whomever has the nuts or the strongest draw if no one has the nuts) so he may as well let the dead money keep donating with whatever 2nd-best, 1-outer hand they're playing.

Ladybruin is correct that we can easily be a dog in this hand, but if we can get 2 players to call a checkraise, it seems profitable.

If we think only 1 player will call a check-raise, then we should call turn.
grant2 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive