Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
range dynamics vs villains who play everything range dynamics vs villains who play everything

12-29-2020 , 06:21 PM
Against players who pip almost everything, IDK how to begin thinking about range dynamics and resort to ABC logic where villain's actions (e.g Xing back otf) are basically just as important as the board cards. I find it really difficult to bluff these players because I have no idea what im targeting. Firing into capped ranges works, but beyond that how much time do you spend contemplating their ranges?

In these games you can look at a board and see a bunch of ridiculous, but plausible interactions with their range. This gets even more convoluted multiway, obviously. Anyway how do you navigate these games? do you focus mostly on villains actions too?
range dynamics vs villains who play everything Quote
12-30-2020 , 02:21 AM
I find myself thinking the same thing often. Also, never sure how big a value bet I can make because often times I'm shocked by stuff I see people get to the river with.

I'm guessing that the answer might be that if players are just in there with all kinds of garbage all the time that bluffing isn't quite as important. What you miss out on from bluffs you don't try, you more than make up for in value from all their jack high flushes, bottom straights, bad two pairs etc.
range dynamics vs villains who play everything Quote
12-30-2020 , 07:13 AM
you should be thinking in terms of "nuts".. and the river is the most important street vs these types of players as it has the biggest bets so thats where they make the biggest mistakes.
Example:
Q97A6

nuts to 2PR.. are T8,85,AA,QQ,99,77,66,AQ,A9,A7,A6,Q9,Q7,Q6,97,96,76 .

thats 17 hands, vs a player that likes to call i would value bet this river with AQ+. these types of players like to put you on busted flushes or one pair type hands and call down with 2 pair. also if you get raised you can easily fold knowing that the passive, any 4 cards player very likely has you beat. obvioulsy if theyre aggro postflop than you have to adjust.

dont bluff them. take them straight to value town and print money. i dont even bet the dry Ace on a mono flop vs these types as they just dont give a S**T. i honestly think their mentality is "i came to play PLO and gamble, i have now flopped a flush, so im going to see if he also has flopped a bigger flush and i lose or i win" lol you cant "bluff" mentality.
range dynamics vs villains who play everything Quote
12-30-2020 , 07:35 PM
So there's been at least the pot mashers thread recently which is an identical topic to this, along with people talking about it in a bunch of other threads (shocker loose players have always liked PLO).

As others have said, in the other threads, maybe just post some hands and let people comment ... say which villains you think are playing too wide on which streets etc.

As for the AQ hand, I think AQ can be a bet against most people there (depending on action to river) ... although you may want to go bigger if you think you'll exploit villain calling too much and not bluff raising enough.

The general rule I'd say when they play too many hands pre. they have to be unbalanced _somewhere_ post, so it's your job to work out where. Eg. twotone or monotone flops: they "have to call" a lot with lots of crappy flushes/flush-draws you wouldn't because _so_ much of the rest of their range is even worse trash.

In general I think it's much more important to think about what your checking/calling range is than your betting range, unless you are sure they are only betting better hands ... in which case ez game, why are you not just printing?
range dynamics vs villains who play everything Quote
12-30-2020 , 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by illiterat

The general rule I'd say when they play too many hands pre. they have to be unbalanced _somewhere_ post, so it's your job to work out where. Eg. twotone or monotone flops: they "have to call" a lot with lots of crappy flushes/flush-draws you wouldn't because _so_ much of the rest of their range is even worse trash.

In general I think it's much more important to think about what your checking/calling range is than your betting range
^great stuff imo
range dynamics vs villains who play everything Quote
12-31-2020 , 01:19 AM
I play my hand straight up. I play my range straight up and value bet them/ bet dominating hands and fold when I miss.

They usually only use a pot bit sizing, so I just tighten up, Let them win some battles, but ultimately stack them, or just use my overall range advantage to make them fold.

You can barrel over multiple streets IP and its hard for their range to withstand it. I usually use a smaller sizing because they are calling with worse type of hands.

OOP I am playing straight up and raising with blockers for a small sizing occasionally to keep them honest.

If you look at equity distribution, its not bad, they are going to be even money in most heads up pots. Rainbow t984 vs Double suited aces is about 65/45.

Last edited by schm2231; 12-31-2020 at 01:39 AM. Reason: typo
range dynamics vs villains who play everything Quote
12-31-2020 , 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by +EVillain
^great stuff imo
Agreed.

I should also note that it's quite common in some games that lots of players are super loose pre, but tighten up to reasonable call down ranges post. These you can really hammer with blockers.
range dynamics vs villains who play everything Quote

      
m