Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

High Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 2/4 and above pot-limit Omaha poker

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-08-2017, 05:15 PM   #1
qwerqwer
newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 18
Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

Hi,

Situation on 888poker is the same as it was on WPN - after numerous emails with 888 customer service and security department, nothing has been done. The botring that most of the midstakes PLO regs know is still operating on the 888 tables.

Posting evidence here on 2p2 and spamming WPN with emails has worked to get the bots on their network banned. Discussing the data has also proven 2 of the accused accounts to be legit players and their accounts were reinstated.

I hope we can do the same and clean the 888 PLO tables.

Here is the data for the 888 bot accounts:




The guys, who are not familiar with the botring can check the 2 threads, which discuss the same:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15...-them-1537778/

and

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15...e-wpn-1636789/


There is one more account, who has extremely similar stats. Unfortunately, I don't have a large enough sample to prove that he is from the same botring. So if some of the long time regs on 888 wants to help me prove it faster, pls pm me.
qwerqwer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2017, 05:34 PM   #2
qwerqwer
newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 18
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

and here is a comparison between the 888 bot accounts and an average of the WPN bots. Results are so clear - unprobably similar stats:



Obviously, the bot owner(s) made adjustments to a few stats to increase their winrate and/or adjust to the games today. It is super easy to see which stats have been changed and why there is some difference when comparing 888 bots to the botring on stars (which played 2 years ago) and when comparing to the WPN one (which played last year).
qwerqwer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2017, 06:30 PM   #3
Phazm
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 56
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

I'd check out Domi_decko, nuumen and Redfrog aswell
Phazm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 10:28 AM   #4
AlexKP
adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 831
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

We deff need all the regs on 888 to send emails to them, have u got an email that does not only go to the support?
AlexKP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 12:22 PM   #5
qwerqwer
newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 18
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

when the support finally assured me that the matter has been forwarded to their security department, I received an answer from operations [at] cassava.net and started discussing with them, so I guess this should be the right email.

I honestly cannot believe how low interest this gets. This is basically a green light to bots/cheaters in general lol.
qwerqwer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 12:27 PM   #6
Lessu
Thailand Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Finn Land
Posts: 8,991
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...-bots-1554591/

I tried to help 888poker to fight the bot problem and while few of them stopped playing, very very slow and frustrating to deal with them.
Lessu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 06:40 PM   #7
Controlling
grinder
 
Controlling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 591
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

I saw that you have calculated the absolute difference between suspects and bots... Here are the relative differences (if difference is in the +-5% intervall the cell is red)...



there are indeed some interesting similarities.

You should look more into it and also compare the stats by position and not only overall.

The problem is that only the room/network itself can really check and investigate what is going on.

But suspicous this is for sure. But maybe this is a studygroup and the players play all same way. Who knows?

What are the EV-winrates of those guys buy the way?

Don`t tell me that they are loosing...
Controlling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 08:03 PM   #8
qwerqwer
newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 18
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

so you message me that you don't play on the network, but want the data from the excel sheets to help. then run an absolute worthless "analysis" on a 20k hand sample, when a 1 mln sample may not be enough for it. furthermore, you seem to have no idea about the botring itself - how they operate, what has already been proven, how many of them were banned, on which sites, etc. on top of it, you want to see their winrate? what about their lifetime graph, would you be interested?

if you can't help, please just move on.
qwerqwer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 04:58 AM   #9
Lessu
Thailand Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Finn Land
Posts: 8,991
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Controlling View Post

What are the EV-winrates of those guys buy the way?

Don`t tell me that they are loosing...
Would you be ok with bots that are losing? If your answer is yes, you are ok with bot developers to test their bots live to find profiles that are profitable.
Lessu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 05:06 AM   #10
jayme87
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,860
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

888 have been like this for years.. two years ago some were reported. Some dissapeared. No one got refunded.. new names come in. Idenitical play styles
jayme87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 05:53 AM   #11
qwerqwer
newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 18
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayme87 View Post
888 have been like this for years.. two years ago some were reported. Some dissapeared. No one got refunded.. new names come in. Idenitical play styles
exactly that's the thing - the first "wave" was banned and now they refuse to ban the same bots, some time later. I am sure that if enough people spam their security department and if thread on 2p2 gets enough attention, they will ban the current ones too.
qwerqwer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 08:50 AM   #12
Controlling
grinder
 
Controlling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 591
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

Quote:
Originally Posted by qwerqwer View Post
so you message me that you don't play on the network, but want the data from the excel sheets to help. then run an absolute worthless "analysis" on a 20k hand sample, when a 1 mln sample may not be enough for it. furthermore, you seem to have no idea about the botring itself - how they operate, what has already been proven, how many of them were banned, on which sites, etc. on top of it, you want to see their winrate? what about their lifetime graph, would you be interested?

if you can't help, please just move on.
Are you lame? The first think that is clear that calculating only absolute differences to compare players are kind of dumb. I only had 5 minutes and i played around with the numbers and this was my first idea.

So: **** off yourself. It´s not my problem if you are loosing money against bots and in a bad mood because of that. Maybe you should move forward and get a real job, if this environment is getting to tough for you.
Controlling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2017, 03:19 AM   #13
5wisher5weet
newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 19
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

If they are not cracking down doesn't that just mean it's a conspiracy?
5wisher5weet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2017, 09:21 AM   #14
Grethe
adept
 
Grethe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Waiting for the heater
Posts: 1,186
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

Someone should really build a machine learning algorithm/decision tree and sell to the networks
Grethe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2017, 05:12 AM   #15
Jeff W
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 9,496
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grethe View Post
Someone should really build a machine learning algorithm/decision tree and sell to the networks
They need to do this themselves or subcontract the work because they have access to holecards and deposit/withdrawal data and we don't.
Jeff W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2017, 06:58 AM   #16
yoyoplo
grinder
 
yoyoplo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 680
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Controlling View Post
Are you lame? The first think that is clear that calculating only absolute differences to compare players are kind of dumb. I only had 5 minutes and i played around with the numbers and this was my first idea.

So: **** off yourself. It´s not my problem if you are loosing money against bots and in a bad mood because of that. Maybe you should move forward and get a real job, if this environment is getting to tough for you.
lmao you cant even beat plo200 you ****in fish. you shouldnt be allowed to post here. also dont complain when these botmakers just run the bots on your plo2 streets and you cant beat the game anymore and say its because of the phukin rake.
ridiculous.
yoyoplo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2017, 11:33 AM   #17
Grethe
adept
 
Grethe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Waiting for the heater
Posts: 1,186
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff W View Post
They need to do this themselves or subcontract the work because they have access to holecards and deposit/withdrawal data and we don't.
I think a lot of it could be done with datamodels based on rPTR and without holecards
Grethe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2017, 12:21 PM   #18
Controlling
grinder
 
Controlling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 591
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoyoplo View Post
lmao you cant even beat plo200 you ****in fish. you shouldnt be allowed to post here. also dont complain when these botmakers just run the bots on your plo2 streets and you cant beat the game anymore and say its because of the phukin rake.
ridiculous.
Beating plo200? not really, but still slightly +EV.
Problems with rake? - Sorry to disappoint you. Rake is a good friend of mine and maybe the only reason why i still play. Rakeback+Races make me happy on the small network I play at. Maybe there are some bots. But hard to say if these are really doing harm or keeping the games alive there.
Controlling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2017, 03:27 PM   #19
gay_on_tse
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 515
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

Controlling, maybe you should move on to Reddit poker where OF4 reigns supreme.
gay_on_tse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2017, 01:40 PM   #20
potbet
newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 36
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

@grethe and qwerqwer

you may remember me from the old botring @ stars, party, ipoker, ... - thread some time ago. I am not a regular on 2+2 though. If you are interested in teaming up to discuss and search for solutions send me a pm please.
I am not a big fan of doing that in an open forum with all that distracting noise and I do not want to help the programmers to improve by posting how to detect the current bots...
potbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2017, 04:45 PM   #21
reihana9
stranger
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 4
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5wisher5weet View Post
If they are not cracking down doesn't that just mean it's a conspiracy?
Yeah, that's sensible rationale. If 888 poker don't do anything about it then the problem just doesn't exist. I forgot what an honest caring company 888 are for their customers and how keen they are to plough resources into weeding out cheating robots.
reihana9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2017, 12:59 AM   #22
dinok
stranger
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: 888 Poker full of own BOTS
Posts: 7
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

they are so everywhere on 888 poker.
I complained to security at casava but they didn't do anything.
Basically what they told me, that some players sitting but not playing, and if you check on any table at any time on 888 poker, you will see some of them playing over 2869 minutes of active playing, and when you calculate 2869/60=47.86 hrs straight and it's not just me who is pissed off.

I think they do same thing like UB years ago, and probably some of the bots are they own to rob us players blind.
dinok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 06:00 AM   #23
danfiu
grinder
 
danfiu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Hungary
Posts: 677
Re: Fighting bots in 2017 (known botring on 888 poker)

I havent seen domi_decko for ages, probably banned?
danfiu is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online