This is a spot that came up for me in a 10 handed 2/5 plo game the other day that I felt uncertain about. I was sitting with about 200BB UTG and many people at the table cover. I open pot to 20 and get 6 calls. The BB just got stacked, re-bought to 200BB, and is loose/aggro/bad. He re-pots.

In game I 4bet pot and got it in pre-flop with just the BB.

My question is whether this is a mistake in typical passive live setting. Many players will not re-raise aces without getting a big chunk of their stack in, and I have 6 players to get through between myself and the BB ( who I would gladly get it in with). Is re-potting the best play here always? Does anyone flat and fold if someone else shoves who's range would basically be aces? Does anyone just fold?

Against described opponent, this is +EV

My question is more focused on the dynamics being at a full table with a lot of calls pre. Should I be taking into consideration that 6 people aside from the BB are in a position to 5-bet me, and the only one I want to get 5-bet by has 6 players between us?

I play in a similar game. Considering this exact situation, you are likely to encounter a sandbagging AAxx in the middle expecting a pot from the VIP at the table.

I am assuming you don't have KKAx. Obviously, if you do this decision is much easier.

Fold - Almost never.
Call - Too high variance of a move IMO. We allow TTJ9 one suite and 5678ds in there and it is very hard to realize our equity. We must make the nuts to win.
Pot- Best option. Even vs AAxx, we are looking at a triple up with a 60/40 to 70/30 which translates to a breakeven situation.

Thanks for the reply. I should have mentioned it, but no Ace in my hand. I just felt uneasy unloading a pot sized bet back through 6 people and actually considered folding for awhile, but it just seemed too nitty haha.

Sometimes he has aces. Even against that you have 35% equity. Plus 4 betting creates a large amount of dead $. Plus you're actually a small favorite if he's just slamming a 3 bet in here 10% of the time.

But really, assuming people are folding behind (almost certainly the case), you're risking 200 bb to profit 224 bb pre rake (villain's 200 + dead $). So at 47.2% equity, you break even and begin making money from there. With random double suited kings, that's achieved if Bb has a 7% 3 bet range according to PPT. It'll probably be lower in practice since people won't be 3 betting perfectly linear according to PPT's hand rankings. Steamed LAG sounds like the kind of guys who would be 7%+ here anyway though.

Raise, you want suited aces out of this pot and the hand is strong enough.

jdr0317's numbers are a good basis. Given the profile, villain might be 3 betting as much as 30% here. And sometimes he will flat and we print money there.

You say it like 5678ds isn't a better hand to have against aces than KK.

All we heard is this:

"The BB just got stacked, re-bought to 200BB, and is loose/aggro/bad. "

That's barely a description. What does loose/aggro/bad mean? What does he 3bet with?

KKds is a very fine hand to play multiway, but reopening is good too if opponent is going to have non AA here enough. It really just comes down to the comparison of those two situations.

Anyway, reraising seems fine. Kind of shocking you didn't even tell us what your hand is, just that it's ds KK, as if all dsKK are exactly the same. I suppose I would probably ship KK23ds here too just for the dead money, but if it were close you'd want to specify.

Honestly my question had more to do with what to expect from the field, and what makes sense from a long term strategy point of view. I expect to have a better hand here than villain most of the time and I was content to get 200BB in pre-flop against him. That seems like enough of a read to make a judgement on the situation.

I am not sure I phrased my actual question very well here, it seems to be missing the mark. Ignoring what Bb may be holding, do you let the fact that there are 6 players that will act after you who have called a bet pre-flop in a relatively passive game impact your decision on how you would play suited kings in particular? If you had KKJ10 would that be different than KK23 if both are double suited?

I wanted to play a big pot against the BB, I just didn't know if it was a good play in the long term. Looks like if it went 3 way even against aces I'd have 30%, which makes me feel better about the decision to re-pot pre.

-Pete

The other players add dead money to the pot, so you’d be more inclined to reraise than otherwise.

The only time I’m stacking this is if 3b villain is a sick punter and will stack off 4 random to crack aces

Otherwise just call the 3b pre and play a flop

What are the two side cards?

? That doesn't make sense at all.

It doesn't matter if they gii with worse, all that matters is their 3b range has air. If the villain folds, that's fine for us, especially if we can fold out Axxx 3b hands. We just have to make sure the opponent doesn't have aces too much of the time for our jam to run into aces too much of the time. At a guess, as long as the opponent doesn't have aces more than 2/3 of the time or so it'd be fine (I may be really off here, but whatever).

The reason we jam is to pick up the pot right now with our reasonable equity, and to fold out or charge the other hands which we have an equity edge on.

i think a 4b is really good here esp if connected on top of ds

I really like almost a min-4 bet here. If I'm reading this right, you made it 20, get 6 callers, so the BB pot bet is 180? You can get lots of information by making it $340. You'll sniff out AAxx in the middle of the table. You also have the chance that the 6 callers fold and the BB 5 bets and you can get it all in if you're so inclined, which I don't think is the worst spot to be against a loose/aggro player that is just as likely to get it in with 4 random as he is to get it in with AAxx on his rebuy.

If a middle position player who flat calls the $20 shoves in a 5 bet, I'd almost argue you can get away from your hand assuming the 5 bet player has you covered. I'm not usually in the habit of putting in 72 BB and then folding to a shove, but I can see an argument for folding if a middle position limper shoves on you because it's aces 100% of the time.

Am I reading this right? reraise/fold 340 off 1k with double suited kings when there's a bunch of deadmoney?