Because the cap crew moved there? Dont see cap games often at mid/highstakes anymore.

Plus its a good way too learn plo for nlhe converts that are uncomfortable with fullstacks.

One thing to keep in mind is the interests of pros and the interest of the sites are not perfectly aligned.

Shallow games may well be good for the sites. They suck for winning players.

As a notorious shortstacker I would not mind a 35 or 50bb new minimum. I just hope for the love of god that they do not add cap or shallow tables.

100bb min is overkill. If ante tables are added they need to be 100bb min though.

50BB-100BB without antes

and

100BB-200BB with antes

In the lobby they should appear in this manner:

Enceladus $3/$6 PL
Achaia (6 max) $3/$6 PL
Nolli VI (6 max, antes) $3/$6 PL
Libussa (1-on-1) $3/$6 PL

Get rid of fast and 50BB min.

? i mean i know the game is less intellectually stimulating, but i dont really understand this mentality

people seem very bad to me with shallower stacks, 'deep stack pro regulars', 'pro shortstackers' and fish alike

im not sure what sucks about a lot of people playing a game very poorly for relatively high stakes

plus its good for gambool and is a fun variance fest

i know two wealthy old men fish that play online at mid-high stakes occasionally, both of them liked to gamble, both liked the cap games and the ante games when they added them, and both of them bitched to me about multitabling pro sharks at regular tables AND about how there are tons of people waiting for headsup games who wont play each other and 'just sit around waiting for me'.

one i know well told me he would deposit 10k, fire 4 bullets at the 2550ante games after dinner while he would have his scotch, and if he busted that was that, and if he won he would look forward to playing the next night. anddd repeat, and repeat and repeat

he's insanely wealthy and he now keeps 'a couple thousand' online and plays 1-2 hu

i have heard the exact same complaint in a live 5-10-25 plo game full of old men fish regarding headsup when they were talking about playing online

the amount of posts regarding 'whats best for the gamesss!' is so ridiculously biased and rooted in peoples self-interests in these threads it is crazy

why?

Thank you.

This is a little hard to explain actually and I'm basing it on my experience rather than some abstract theory.

Basically they're just not very good games. It's a combination of filling with ratholer shortstack pro types and the fact that the less money you have the smaller your mistakes can be.

It may be that shallower play is just easier than deeper play, and I think I can do both decently whereas a lot of people have problems playing deeper.

Cap games for whatever reason seemed to get a higher ratio of fish to winning players and always seemed pretty good to play in, if kind of boring.

It may be that there is a hierarchy of pros within a given limit or something. I am aware that some high volume grinders have done quite well in shallow NL and likely PLO as well. From my point of view those games are just not interesting. Financially or otherwise.



Also snagglepuss I'm not sure what your point is with regard to my comment. I quite explicitly pointed out that the interest of pros and the interest of the sites are not the same.

I never ever talk about "good for poker" and I think the concept is almost always employed disingenuously.

For example I think people asking for 24 hour rathole bans need to put down the pipe. Anything that prevents a player from sitting at a table under the conditions he requires to play for 24 hours is obviously not going to sit well with the sites.

When I say good for the games I mean good for +EV players. A game where fish at least have the option to buy in for 100 BB is vastly better than one where they can only buy in for 40 BB.

I dislike the term "fish", its bad for the games and quite disrespectful.

Anything else to do with table buyins, new games blah blah blah is all fine and dandy, variety is good, choice is good.

Happy Easter

Shortstacking PLO doesn't seem like a lot of fun to me. Also, the presence of several shortstackers behind me really causes me to tighten up my game.

Shortstacking kills the action in the great action game that is PLO. The effect on NLHE games is far less.

I generally avoid tables with several shortstacks, not because it's less profitable, but because the game becomes generally dry and bland and I can get plenty of that playing other forms of poker.

Snaggle, you make a point there, but shallow/cap tables were terrible for full tilt games. No shallow or cap please! Just up the min to 35 bb and double the rathole timer.

how does it take away from the action? as a shortstacker i'm always all in multiway, get in there and gamble!

ive always thought this too, dont know why more people dont point this out

Because the deeper the more post flop play and the more complex the decisions and therefore the more edge to the thinking hardworking player, obviously.

Shallow games have killed FTP.
Increased variance in the most volatile variant of the game and made it a PF and once in a while Flop game.

Obviously good for the sites, but I'm glad Stars is taking a different approach and asking their players what they want. I'm 2 minutes away from taking my roll over there.