Live full ring 5/5 with 10 rock

Main villain is young Euro kid, mostly plays NL but shortstacks into the PLO when the game is good. Plays tight pre, having seen many showdowns but seems to have it most of the time.

$1200 effective, rock in MP1
HJ limp, Hero with A965 on BTN pots to 50
Villain in BB, rock, and HJ call

Flop (205): T87
X to Hero, bets 125
Only BB calls

Turn (455): 3
Villain checks, Hero bets 300
Villain jams 1025
Hero?

What's our calling range here vs a capable reg? Should I only call with J9 and 96 with FD or 2 pair here?

i'm folding river and over limping pre

Depending on rake and tightness of blinds all options are open pre but typically fold~call>raise.

Postflop don't build a pot 4 way with second nuts no redraw esp as PRF in position. Check flop. It's a fine bluffcatcher / small valuebet hand on clean runouts with no crazy action.

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If you are going to bet with the 2nd nuts (and no redraws) you need to be ready to make a lot of these folds against this type of V. Really need to check Turn and evaluate the River when bet into.

Are you really looking for credit on 'this' Flop when you raise B PF? There's a chance that you are up against set/flush/2pr redraws, but that's all the more reason to let the Turn check through so you can call a more reasonable bet on a 'safe' River.

What does your less than pot bet tell your opponent .. at this table. We don't know the table dynamic for that bet sizing. IMO if you somehow had the nut straight and tried to get value on the Flop I would fully expect a bet closer to pot on the Turn to price out 'new' flush draws and force most opponents to shove or be super priced in on your River jams. GL

Easy call as played unless Villian is incapable of playing back or reading button raise ranges. Your hand should contain way more not straights as the preflop button raiser. You could have a million pair plus flush draw type hands that are barreling and will fold to a turn all-in. I make this bluff OOP all the time profitably.

I think your calling range is a more interesting discussion. Could you bluff catch him here and with what non-nut hands/draws?

I pot this pre too. We're ahead of the everyone's ranges including calling ranges and we're in position.

On the flop our hand isn't very strong, we're up against a few combos of J9 which will likely play slow with no draws out there, so check. As played check back turn. As played fold the turn.

A965 ss is ahead of the everyone's range ?

I think your play was fine,would fold turn to a jam.

Maybe I'm wrong. An eye-roll doesn't really prove that point though. Get out some sims rather than try to assert your correctness through emojis.

He rolled his eyes because you are literally behind all the limpers ranges lmao. Doesn't mean its not an open though, weird way to look at it hot/cold equity in plo pre... Be honest with me, you've never ran a single monker sim in your life right? You are one of those people who believe GTO doesn't give big edges, right?

I had to google monker solver. Yeah I mean I was coaching online PLO and doing videos for cardrunners 10 years ago, so I may well be very behind the times. A friend mentioned 'PIO solver' to me a while back and I had no idea what he was talking about. I'm not a professional poker player anymore.

I pot A965ss behind limpers here because I think we're ahead of their ranges and we have good playability on a lot of flops, as I originally stated. Hot and cold equity is not the end of the story in PLO but we still pot bad aces in position because we want to get more money in ahead, so it's at least part of the story.

I do not believe that GTO gives huge edges in live PLO. A GTO strat is arrived at by iterating ever more optimal strategies against each other in order to lose the minimum, and ignores player tendencies. That does not bear much relevance in a live $5/5 game. Taking a GTO line against the average live player would be leaving a lot of money on the table. Thoroughly researching the GTO line and range balancing would be the right adjustment to playing tough, high-stakes games online.

Knowing correct GTO strat is definitely a useful thing to know because you don't get to cherry-pick your opponents and maybe you come up against someone who knows what they're doing from time to time, but for someone like me, who has 12+ years of experience of playing mid and high stakes PLO, it would be a case of diminishing returns. You go ahead and make people feel bad for not knowing it, though, if you like.

Makes sense why you we disagree so often on hands/lines... and why you assume it is cocky to state something as fact when it comes to them/easily disregard other lines. A bunch of stuff in poker is proven these days.

I have no problem being proven wrong, whether by sims, other forms of evidence, or just better logic than mine. What I object to is the dismissing of my points of view with a 'lmao' or eye-roll that implies that my point of view is stupid and worthless. If you disagree with my point of view, prove me wrong so that we all get to learn something. Isn't that what we're here for? I'm certainly not here to whack my dick on the table.

That's as loose as I could reasonably make it. That's a single limper raising the top 15% of hands and limping the rest.

And what about multiway pots?

I don't think raw equities are particularly important until we are looking at getting stacks in.

Far more important are the components of our hand for the situation. In this spot, our hand is not particularly valuable. Nut suits are always nice, but we have nothing else. Our cards are low, disconnected and having a two gap at the top of our hand will lead to many situations such as this one where we feel compelled to continue with a non-nut hand that cannot improve.

How do you intend to make this hand profitable? Somehow hit more flushes than your opponents?

The best solution is to let the fish fling each other's rake at the dealer, and keep our money neatly piled until we have a genuinely profitable spot to get involved.

I would estimate that 90% of players would instantly make more money if they folded every hand that wasn't double suited or aces.

Same basically, with it getting slightly better with 4+ players in pot. I don't think raw equity matters that much either i agree with above poster on other things overriding it. I'd never fold this hand on the button to some limps though. I assume raising is better than folding but limp behind probably being by far the best play(not sure what gto does). I think limp behind is a clear winner in these kind of spots, preserving SPR and keeping hands in the pot that we can end up having in some really bad spots (flop str8 with flush freeroll, flop trips and have someone out kicked, and of course flush over flush). I see a case for raising very deep and vs some really bad competition but I don't think it even wins that much more in that case.

A789 and AT89 seem like very clear raises with this hand and a678 even being pretty close/player dependent. Once again I really can't imagine folding it.

"I would estimate that 90% of players would instantly make more money if they folded every hand that wasn't double suited or aces."

Loaded statement since most players lose, but surely this is not true for any "good" players and I'm using the term good very loosely. That's like what, 15% of hands? You can profitably open over 15% of hands from every position in 6m. Hell 15% is going to be close to some spots 3 bet frequency... You can't truly believe this is practical you basically auto lose preflop if people open any random hand.

I'm not saying it's optimal, but rather than it would be more profitable than the way almost all people play at lower levels. If you're VPIPing over 30% without being very experienced it's going to be hard to beat rake. This kind of hand is a good example. GTO would fold Vs action in front of you and open raise from late position only on the assumption the blinds will fold a lot.



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most live PLO games are not raked at this level at least in the US

I have serious doubts gto folds to limps while on the button this deep with this holding, even with 1 dollar 2 dollar rake structure or w/e