Online $3.5/7 game (game not in USD, so equivalent given).

V1 (UTG) = pretty aggressive player who is stuck, but usually plays higher stakes. I would say this player is pretty solid. Stack Size $1050.

V2 (LP) = pretty nitty player for most part. Stack size $1165

V3 (MP) = pretty straightforward nittyish player.

My stack (UTG+1): $1870

8-handed.

I have A496. Yes, fold preflop.

V1 pots to $25.
I call
V3 calls
V2 calls

Blinds fold

Flop is 749 Pot ~$110

V1 bets $75
I call
V3 folds
V2 calls


I debated between raising here or just calling, but given V1 is super aggressive and I'm ahead a lot of the time and he will shut down a lot of turns, I figured call and evaluate was better given our stack depth.


Turn 5 Pot $335

This card is interesting for my hand giving me nut flush draw, 2 pair, and an open-ended (non-nut) straight.

V1 bets $335
I call
V2 raises to $900
V1 calls
I call

I don't think raising the turn gives me much other than folding out worse hands that are drawing thin against me, and could easily run into a straight, and keeping it multi-way to stack off seemed better. I could have put both players all in here, but I didn't see them folding when I hit anyway since the pot would be so gigantic and they only had like $50 behind. V2 basically is guaranteed to have 68 here, but I don't see a spot where I could have folded this one especially once V1 comes along. Plus an 8 could give me a chop.

Obviously this hand is trash preflop and I should have folded, but given the call, is there any merit playing the flop or turn differently?

Reminds me of the passage I just read in Sklanskys newer ToP where he talks about having to fold pretty good (and maybe even currently the best) hands on the flop when bet into with players to act behind you.

What hands are leading that flop that you beat? Huge draws, I guess. Your playability on the turn is almost always going to be poor, having little idea if you're good and possibly being stuck in the middle.

These are all reasons you should fold this toilet pf, but you already knew that.

What hands? Tons, this guy is super aggressive and his continuation bets were common. I was picking him off a ton by simply flatting his flop bets, he'd check turn, and I'd either check behind or steal turn. His lead really means nothing here to me, he'll do this with 90% of his hands easily. I am a bit more concerned with the players behind, which means maybe I should have raised to get them out if they just had some weaker draws that can get there. I'd love to get weak flush draws to fold or just simple open-ended straight draws. Looking at it, perhaps the order of what I should do here is raise > fold > call. I generally tried play this opponent by calling him a *lot* when in position and not letting him get away with making a big pot where I could be folding the best hand, or having to stack off with a marginal holding. My call could easily make him have to check the turn, in which case I can decide if I want to bet or try to get to the river cheaper.

This flop is extremely unlikely to have hit him hard, so floating (even with far worse than I have) was pretty profitable. But having the extra players behind made it probably a bad idea, but I did figure I was a huge favorite to be ahead on the flop (although maybe not much ahead when I was, like being against KdKxXd type hands).

I had picked up a few pots this way on this guy, he loved to make big river bets with air, and calling him down a lot tended to be profitable (or shoving when I had ideal bluff cards, he would pot, and fold to re-pot).

There were a decent number of turn cards I wanted to see as well - any club, any ace, any 9, any 4 were all great cards for me. I have no problem "floating" (is it truly a float with 2 pair?) to try to improve the draw or hand, and worry about the turn.

I'm not 100% sure I remember this correctly but I think he uses the example of AT on a fairly dynamic Axx board.

Fold pre fold flop

I have been smashed in so many pots with starting hands like this that my only advice that is definite is fold pre. As played, I’m probably folding the flop a lot it sounds nitty but what do we beat? What turns cards and runnouts really help us?

If i made it to that turn, I’d have reraised pot instead of calling.

Turn seems like a clear fold given the action - seems like an obvious straight your against. I think this is a good example of why we don't play hands like this pre - we flopped pretty well but have very few ways to improve, and there's a ton of bad turns. Even if this was DS it's still not that strong, but at least gives us a second chance for a weak flush.

I don’t like your call preflop from UTG1. I mean, you shouldn’t have much of a cold calling range here (some KKxx and QQxx)—I’d say all your Axxx should be 3betting or folding, so you can definitely fold the single suit, non-broadway here.

As played, I actually don’t mind a raise on the flop against aggro/tilted UTG, since you have a st8 blocker, a diamond and bdfd, in addition to top/bottom. The fact that the two players behind are nitty means you can raise/fold if necessary.

On the turn you’re pretty much indifferent 3way against, say, a straight (V2) and diamond draw/gutter combo (V1), but you may as well just put the all money in after V2’s raise.

Fold to the first bet or after it's raised and called? Even if he turns his hand face-up, I can't fold on the second one. To the UTG bet, I am calling against this player with likely the best hand and emergency draws. But the worry is getting it in with player behind where he jams, then UTG folds.

Against this opponent 3-betting is usually bad, especially at this stack depth. I try to keep pots smaller and evaluate when I see flops.

I do think I should have raised the flop. This particular opponent is kind of aggressive and if he jams here, I really am not happy. Maybe that leans toward fold, but that's what escalating mistakes gets us.

I don't think V1 is tilting, just this is lower stakes than he usually plays and is more likely to **** around and spew off cash, or try to bully people who might be taking a shot at a bigger game.

The obvious turns that help us are of course a 9 and 4. A non-diamond ace would also be quite good. Clubs are of course good to hit. And there is a decent chance of a check-through on the flop.

Results:

V1 hand KJT8

V2 had 68 (hand history doesn't show what else).

River is J and V1 jams like $50 and is called. I ran it in an equity calculator and I was surprisingly in decent shape on the turn, something like 36% of the equity, with V1 with 12%.

Definitely misread V1's hand here, his wrap was quite strong and needed to protect against flushes. V2 was going nowhere with at least open-ended and flush draw, wish I saw his cards. I don't think my result is much different other than if I folded preflop.

Obviously 9 or 4 are good cards but you could be drawing to runner runner aces or 9-ace. Back door clubs is your best bet. At these stack sizes i’m dumping this multiway with two left to act.

That's a pretty different description of V1 than the OP, where he was "pretty solid".

He's definitely a solid player, but just can be overly aggressive (given the game makeup, it can work really well). He is exploitative. I don't think he was on tilt or anything. I think he is not scared to make plays and bet people off of hands more than just being a nit. Probably is one of the better players on this site, although when he plays lower, he tends to be slightly more spewy, and exploits players that are used to playing lower and playing scared.

Interesting how descriptions of players function. To me when you say “stuck” and “spewy” alongside “solid” and “aggressive” it implies that villain is widening his default range, as well as, probably, his cbet turn frequency. While it’s still a fold preflop, I’d say this extra info makes for a stronger case of raising flop (and calling versus a V1 shove but folding versus a raise from those behind). In the end, V1’s more exploitative approach should, ideally, make him more exploitable.

Stuck just means he was down. That affects different players in different ways.

This player typically has a wide range, but can avoid a lot of trouble with it. There's a difference between a loose player that just is going to donk off money, vs. one that can pull back. In terms of spewy- I think that mostly is he just will play a bit different at lower stakes until he starts caring, so in this case, getting stuck is maybe motivation to play at full effort, which he is capable of.

If I raise here and he jams, I think I have to fold? The reason to raise is to deny equity to weaker holdings that might accidentally get there, and to make sure other players exit. So if I take it down, great! I have the best hand now but would have an uphill battle to have the best hand or know I can call down later.

I would say he also tends to play a bit crazier at low stakes to goad people into playing them higher where he plays his A+ game and soul crushes them.

The idea that his exploitative play turns into something I can exploit is the main idea - especially when I sat on his left.

If I raise, likely result is the player behind will either call or get it in there, and when V gets it in, I have an easy fold. So perhaps raising to win it then or know I need to get out saves me money.