Quote:
Originally Posted by tiltsmurf
i wrote in in the othe thread as well.
the only downside to zoom is that fished can fast fold and be tighter so winrates are lower.
everything else abut zoom is great.
so why dont we remove the fast fold button and make it a " normal " game?
Disclaimer this is only for PLO games, I cant comment on NLHE games since I dont actually play in any 50 100 NLHE on Pokerstars. Im glad Nick did post seperate threads for PLO and NLHE, and take the time to collect our opinions
My opinion:
Zoom is not normal poker, it lacks lots of dynamics, deeper stacks, ante games (that esp have been going historically a fair amount on 50 100) etc. That said Zoom also remove some bad issues in the current climate, but it should be other ways to fix this in my opinion.
I think Nick are 100% right about the issues, but wrong about the 'cure'.
Pokerstars did not even try to ban autoseat software or fix the button problem. Both of these should be easily fixable years ago for such big company.
A working zoom need strong antirathole measures and potensially ante.
Questions for Nick
1) Since its Zoom only will there be a zoom ante Pool on 50 100?
2) Will anti rathole measures be implemented before 1 January?
3) Will these tables get same timebank as the normal tables?
Its a joke imo if zoom only come before anti rathole measures.
If zoom gets implemented I do agree about removing the fast fold button as tiltsmurf propose to make it more similar to normal poker.
Anyone have data on average vpip on zoom vs normal tables for 2.5-5?
Im pretty sure we want loose, fast, (profitable) and fun games. A game centered around (fast) folding is not a fun game for recreationals?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Nick
Our biggest motivation for making this change is to reduce the seating and angle-shooting meta-games that surround our current High Stakes offerings. This is in an effort to allow players to concentrate on actually playing poker while encouraging a healthy, competitive, non-predatory environment in our highest stakes games.
Its hugely in Pokerstars interest to make everything zoom, esp on 50 100 where ante games have run quite often. It quickly becomes a raketrap (as Sira Al Aziz says), with lots of ratholing, midstaking (50bb) and luring recreational's to playing tighter..
I'm not sold that this is best for the players yet. Far from it, I think Pokerstars first should try to stop the reason they think the games became how they are, and maybe take some self criticism about not listening to this forums suggestions, rather then taking huge drastic measures, like taking away normal tables for us, gameselection, the normal tables timebank and the ante tables.
There is other ways to fix the games that dont change how the game itself is played!
I urge you to please dont **** over the game itself, and the dynamic and structure behind it, rather fix the glitches in your software, TOC and manpower to fix this.
There is other ways that could stop the seat scribers like global waitlist with reserved seats for that list (every time u refuse a seat you would start at bottom at the global waitlist etc).. Also simply ban the software, Pokerstars have been able to ban lots of other software, autoseat scribts should not be harder?
Pokerstars should easily be able to track by metadata who use these predatory scribts as well by raw consistency and speed as well, so they can detect these users and look them up more closely. Every reg know who uses autoseat by using their eyes so Im sure Pokerstars can find a way as well to detect these programs.
Having someone police 10/20+ would help as well, with a call VIPHOST button on the table, just like there are a moderater button, and a host for final tables. Dont think it seems unreasonable with so many empleyers that someone police those games to watch them more closely in real time, boot people of tables, give warnings, etc..
Then if nothing else work, try out Zoom. No need to amputate our hand when the thumb is cut off, there is other fixes that should be tried ages ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sira Al Aziz
I agree with most of what you said. Hypothetically I would even rather play zoom than normal tables, since as you mentioned zoom has many advantages (you can start a session instantly, you don't have to worry about table selecting,etc.).
However there are a couple of problems with zoom (and/or Stars plan for the games):
1. Many recs don't like zoom (it's a fast game that is definitely not suited for every rec player). This means that they'll have to step down in stakes to play or just quit altogether.
2. Rec players will on average play tighter when playing zoom
3. The reg to rec ratio will be much higher (i know that this is a consequence of making the game more fair, but it's still true)
The consequence of point 1 is that highstakes games (at this point it's only 50/100, but it's safe to assume that Stars will expand to 25/50 and 10/20 as well later) will run less often.
And the consequence of number 2 and 3 is that when they do run edges are gonna me much smaller, which means that some games are potentially gonna be a rake trap.
If Stars had the plan to do this to all stakes than I'd actually be more willing to accept it (since I can see how it could benefit the poker economy long term). But since I'm pretty sure they'll only do this for 10/20+, the practical effect is gonna be that games at this stakes will run even less often, because recs move down in stakes, we all lose and stars rakes more.
+1 Great post
Last edited by blopp; 12-13-2013 at 09:00 PM.