Playing in private game on one of the poker apps...

8-handed 2-4 PLO with mandatory 8 straddle... also 1 ante to juice up the pot a bit.

Stack sizes to start:
UTG ~600
UTG+1 ~ 520
Hero ~450

UTG opens for 12.. he just raised the hand before and folded to r/r. I don't know much about him at this point.

UTG+1 calls 12.

UTG+1 is a bad player who I am trying to get in pots with in position more than anybody else at the table.

I have AKKJ on the CO. Hero raises to 42.

UTG quickly repots to 153. UTG+1 (fish) folds, Hero ???

folds. also u can open for 12 with an 8 straddle?

This might end up being relevant, read below.

Agreed if the were at 100bb. This is a tough but necessary fold at 100bb.

But I do have an interesting twist at 100bb. Since this is a private game on an app...If the rake is high, then you could have actually cold-called the UTG open-raise instead of you 3-betting.

But the hero wasn't at 100bb.

I often edit my posts and wasn't sure if the edit timer was almost up so a started a new post...

Hero is the effective stack at $450 and there is a straddle on of $8, therefore the Hero started the hand with about 56bb. This is another short stack situation like in a recent thread. The game play changes a lot at a shorter stack.

With a starting stack of 56bb (think 50bb strategy) I am preflop 3-betting and if I get 4-bet, then I am 5-betting. You fling poo at 50bb.


This is an interesting hand in that it changed whether it was 100bb or 56bb. And it changed for 100bb if the rake was normal rake or high rake. OP, I can guarantee you that no one is making the proper adjustments. If you do, then you will crush this game.

You adjustments are needed at 50bb if it is a high rake game, 50bb is a flinging poo game. But if it is high rake when you are around 100bb, then no matter the stakes, in your mind use a "micro" stakes rake strategy. Also if it is a high rake game, then you guys should up the minimum buy-in if you are playing a mandatory straddle because without upping the min buy-in you are playing a short stacked game with high rake. That is no bueno.

If the game is a good game and likely to have all the players deep at some point and it is easier to just learn one stack size strategy and be a beast at it then learn 100b, then fold like I and PokerPlayingGamble suggested.

It was 1-2-4 actually... been playing a ton of both and got my games mixed up on this one.

Good point. I have been somewhat doing this naturally but something I will definitely be more conscious about moving forward.

Also, UCLA Bruins or Boston Bruins?? Haha.

Rake isn't too high as far as I understand. 5% per hand up to 8.

Southern California all the way now after growing up in the North East and getting tired of shoveling snow.

Every now and then someone will post about a private/house game with high rake so I thought I would make sure you weren't in that situation as it changes some of the plays.

You'll do fine just sticking to 100bb strategy.

But if you end up with around 50bb just remember there are no 3bet/folds. Super simple although not perfectly accurate at 50bb would be 3bet/5bet AA** and KKA*. And 50bb 3bet/call4bet the rest.

Private app games can be very juicy, and you're quite shallow for this type of game. I get in without thinking about it much.

There's also the consideration that in games with a small player pool it can be good (for your long-term profitability) to take 0EV or marginally +EV flips due to the image and goodwill amongst your opponents that you stand to gain, even though your variance would greatly increase.

I've heard this argument even for marginally -EV situations, but those shouldn't be necessary.

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I see a flop and evaluate. Any heart flop, if I have a decent straight chance, or if it looks scary for aces, I'm putting on pressure.

Seems like a fold to the repot - I would think a hand like this does not fair well vs AA or a DS broadway rundown.

what about just call pre ?

I might 3b to $30 just to keep the 4b more reasonable to flat, if it comes. Flatting 12 is fine as well, but you do want to try and get HU or at least take the lead away from UTG.

AP make sure you already know what you're going to 'automatically' do with various Flops, but I can flat .. but I'm also GII if we have Jc. We block AA getting a set with position. Let's take a Flop and see how UTG handles it. GL

I like this.

And I don’t like just flatting with this hand and position preflop. It’s too strong. I’d just call with weak kings, but all strong kings are getting 3! with UTG+1 in there.

Why?

Are you putting villain on AAxx most of the time because of the 4bet?

Yes, I think villain will have AA > 75% of the time here. We can't really flat, our hand plays poorly as a call against a four bet, we're just not going to out flop AA often enough to justify seeing a flop. And since we are a substantial dog to AA we don't want to raise. So we are left with fold.

So in position vs EP raise, at least according to GTO preflop sims like monker, we do not do much three betting with broadway pairs including KK. According to the preflop chart I am looking at, we three bet double suited broadway pairs as a class only 13% of the time, and single suited broadway pairs 5% of the time. This doesn't account for double suited double pair hands, which are three bet 24% of the time. Compare this to say DS rundowns with 0, 1, or 2 gaps which get three bet 50% of the time, or 3 broadway + 1 non-broadway ds which gets three bet 48% of the time. So when three betting EP, the emphasis is really on having hands that can survive a four bet.


When we do three bet a broadway pair in position against EP, it pretty much has to have an ace and be double suited. KKAT ds for example. But according to GTO sims KK as a class is just not three bet at a high frequency in this position. Perhaps because this than does play so poorly against a four bet, and also because it is a pretty high value flat and a hand that plays fine multiway. Note here too villain is opening UTG in an 8 handed game so presumably is even tighter than an UTG 6 max range.

pretty sure i know which app OP is on, these games are almost always totally wild. if its the app i'm thinking of, it only allows for 1 tabling so people get involved in way more pots than they should. i just rip it in especially with an ace in my hand.