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High Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 2/4 and above pot-limit Omaha poker

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Old 02-01-2019, 03:39 PM   #1
HUMBLE.
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Thumbs up 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

No hand history, going off recent memory.

Online 6-Max PLO400. Currently 3-handed.

STACKS:

Hero(SB) 400
Rec(BB) 250
Villain(BTN) 400


PRE:

Villain(BTN) raises to 8
Hero(SB) re-raises to 28 w/ AT78
(BB) folds. Villain calls. POT (60)

FLOP:

JJ9

Hero(SB) bets 20 into 60.
Villain(BB) calls. POT (100)


TURN:

JJ9K

Hero(SB)...?



READS: Villain(BTN) is a very good, thinking player. His standard is to raise 2x pre except when he is in the SB vs BB, he will 3x from the SB. Villain usually 8+tables, but I only saw him/her on 4, fwiw.

I was pretty much lost on the flop and turn. Does our hand play better as a check call on the flop? And does it matter if we cap our range by checking the flop? Turn play was also difficult for me to play.

Thinking back on the hand, I really dislike inflating the pot with such a marginal draw on a paired board. Everything that I hit will be non nut.


Thanks.
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Old 02-02-2019, 12:09 AM   #2
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

Jj9 isn’t the best board for you so idk if the 1/3 pot is really a thing here w your range on this texture.
Anyway as played I think it’s gotta be a bet. You have Jx and kk and some 99 combos. I think something like 75% should get some folds and you have some outs vs the jx in his range. He also shouldn’t be feeling so hot about calling a larger sizing w some of his drawy parts of his range.
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Old 02-02-2019, 01:59 PM   #3
VerdantDevil
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

I like the flop bet only because you block continuing ranges (clubs, rundowns with J in it). If you get called with the flop bet, definitely check it down even if you hit the straight or flush, as any type of calling range should have you in pretty bad shape.
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Old 02-03-2019, 03:54 PM   #4
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdantDevil View Post
I like the flop bet only because you block continuing ranges (clubs, rundowns with J in it). If you get called with the flop bet, definitely check it down even if you hit the straight or flush, as any type of calling range should have you in pretty bad shape.
Button has to peel a TON of hands getting 4:1 on the flop.
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Old 02-03-2019, 04:50 PM   #5
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

Is it bad to 3-bet here if you are afraid the villain will own you, unless you flop the near nuts?
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Old 02-03-2019, 04:54 PM   #6
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
Jj9 isn’t the best board for you so idk if the 1/3 pot is really a thing here w your range on this texture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adebisi View Post
Button has to peel a TON of hands getting 4:1 on the flop.
Looks like we should at least consider a second barrel especially if I am betting so small on the flop which gives villain a reason to stic k around. Even though it is a paired flop, maybe I should size up at least to 1/2 pot on the flop on this wetter texture?
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Old 02-03-2019, 05:01 PM   #7
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by txdome View Post
Is it bad to 3-bet here if you are afraid the villain will own you, unless you flop the near nuts?
Look at plo matrix to stop clicking buttons pf
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Old 02-03-2019, 05:50 PM   #8
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

Umm what does the plo pre-flop matrix(I don't know what that is)say about what happens when the flop comes and you still have 85% of your stack to play with somebody who may outplay you in position?
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Old 02-03-2019, 08:29 PM   #9
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

If it’s your opponent out playing you post flop that’s the concern there’s monker solver for that.
Your post was about pf and whether it’s a 3b. And I referred you to a resource that will provide some clarity to your question.
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Old 02-03-2019, 10:07 PM   #10
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
If itís your opponent out playing you post flop thatís the concern thereís monker solver for that.
Your post was about pf and whether itís a 3b. And I referred you to a resource that will provide some clarity to your question.
Have you beat live games against good players?
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Old 02-03-2019, 10:46 PM   #11
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

Rofl tough live plo players yea ok thereís tons of those guys floating around
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Old 02-04-2019, 01:19 AM   #12
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

Without your monkey and matrix you may be lost.
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Old 02-04-2019, 03:23 AM   #13
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

Ignorance is bliss
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:46 PM   #14
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

In game, I check folded to a bet on the turn but it felt kind of weak and I wondered if I would have any bluffs by the river if I folded this hand.
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:32 AM   #15
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

I think you're leveling yourself. You don't need to have a bluffing range on the river out of position heads up on a paired board with non-nut draws on the turn. Just give this one up, and move on to the next hand.

You should, however, have a x/calling range on the turn. That will prevent you from being exploited. I could be wrong, but I think a good x/calling range would be any J, Acc, JKK, QT
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:55 AM   #16
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

Check call flop.....as played, I check fold turn... I also suggest studying pre flop spots.
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:30 PM   #17
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HUMBLE. View Post
No hand history, going off recent memory.

Online 6-Max PLO400. Currently 3-handed.

STACKS:

Hero(SB) 400
Rec(BB) 250
Villain(BTN) 400


PRE:

Villain(BTN) raises to 8
Hero(SB) re-raises to 28 w/ AT78
(BB) folds. Villain calls. POT (60)

FLOP:

JJ9

Hero(SB) bets 20 into 60.
Villain(BB) calls. POT (100)


TURN:

JJ9K

Hero(SB)...?



READS: Villain(BTN) is a very good, thinking player. His standard is to raise 2x pre except when he is in the SB vs BB, he will 3x from the SB. Villain usually 8+tables, but I only saw him/her on 4, fwiw.

I was pretty much lost on the flop and turn. Does our hand play better as a check call on the flop? And does it matter if we cap our range by checking the flop? Turn play was also difficult for me to play.

Thinking back on the hand, I really dislike inflating the pot with such a marginal draw on a paired board. Everything that I hit will be non nut.


Thanks.
jjx on the flop, you 3 bet pf. what is ur range of 3 bet, any2 or 5% or less?
as played 2 barrel turn you can have jkxx or jxxx or kk in your range no ?

if he is aggressive when I miss cbet I prefer check raise flop.
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Old 02-26-2019, 07:36 AM   #18
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

Preflop is a 100% 3bet, flop is mixed, and 1/3 is standard sizing. I think checking can make things a bit easier.

Both of us have similar amounts of KK (he has a little more since we don't cbet all but he calls almost all on flop), we have maybe some more Jx since he didn't raise, but I would say not enough to matter. As such, turn double barrel frequency is probably not huge, and I don't think we have the right blockers for a turn barrel; if anything we block stuff that he'd peel fold. I'd just give up.
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Old 03-24-2019, 11:53 PM   #19
YouPayMyF458
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

you bring yourself in difficult spots.
first of all, OOP is not good in PLO.
power of position is worth gold in PLO.
you have a very good defending hand, but when you 3bet him preflop, you are OOP and in trouble.

anyway, as the Preflop aggressor, you should cbet this kind of flops always like 33-45%,
because your opponent have to fold a lot, since he only can continue with a J, 99, J9, or maybe QT and flushdraws. but, most of the time he will fold to your cbet on paired flops like this. but this situation is a little bit more tricky, because he has a lot of wraps in his range like QTK maybe with flushdraw too. anyway, bet the flop is ok, but since he call the flop, give up the hand, dont barrel again, you might be already drawing dead.

if you would had just called his raise preflop, you could lead the flop or check/raise the flop, and easy take down the pot, or fold to a raise/re-raise. of course you can 3bet OOP to balance your hand ranges, but as you can see, you come in tricky spots OOP so be careful since you are a lot dominated from other hands with your AT87ds
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:24 AM   #20
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

It's a very standard 3bet for value against a button open tbh.
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Old 03-25-2019, 11:38 AM   #21
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YouPayMyF458 View Post
you have a very good defending hand, but when you 3bet him preflop, you are OOP and in trouble.
When he just calls he's OOP too. ;p And in high SPR situation + if he doesn't 3bet hand this good he will end up with a very tight 3betting range.

It's a 3bet and then call vs 4bet. Not sure about flop but I would guess x/c is best.

Last edited by Greg20; 03-25-2019 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:25 PM   #22
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

i like this hand to 3bet IP. OOP its tricky, you have to fold against 4bet a lot since u are comepletely dominated. you can 3bet this hands for balancing reasons, yes. but this hand looks good but actually isnt that good, especially to play 3bet OOP and have to fold against 4bet a lot. because of exactly this problem he is right now... postflop problems with this hand!!! with 78T you come into a lot of trouble when hitting straight or straightdraws, since the TJQ wrap always dominates you, you should be really carefull with hands like this, especially OOP, because when you hit good with this hands, Villains 3bet calling range is most likely to hit also (big) draws or even better straights, its hard to continue since a cbet is senseless because this board textures hit villains range hard, and he is unlikely to fold much. the important factor is the OOP, thats why you end up cbet flop, and give up turn, and every strong player bets the turn, and you have to fold a lot, even when you get only floated and bluffed...

for example, you hit 69T flop. straight. looks good, but JQKx dominates you lot of turn/rivers. (8,Q,J,K,...) and you play big pots with a hand that only is strong on few flops like
456 or 569. or 88x 77x TTx. OOP you can just defend also, look the flop and play pot controlled easy decisions.

for 3bet OOP i recommend to use (ds) rundowns or AAxx, AKKx, or broadway or at least some ATQJss hands, AKQJss, not AT87ds which is dominated a lot and get yourself into a lot of trouble with. even when u flop a 8high flush(draw) u are in trouble.

he doesnt end up in very tight 3betting range, since he can 3bet wider IP, but OOP your 3betting range should be tighter than IP, since you are always OOP and this sucks.
it brings you in a lot of trouble. and if the IP player knows you 3bet too light OOP, he will start 4betting you wider IP and you have to fold a lot more ...
or you dont fold an call him down and i promise you, u will end up beeing dominated a lot of time, aand losing money overall with exactly this play.

Last edited by YouPayMyF458; 03-25-2019 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 03-26-2019, 05:53 AM   #23
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

Cool but I think I'll stick to solver ranges rather than your recommendations. ;p

Spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by YouPayMyF458 View Post
he doesnt end up in very tight 3betting range, since he can 3bet wider IP,
It's wrong but what does it have to do with anything? I meant that he ends up with too tight SB v BTN 3-betting range.

Quote:
but OOP your 3betting range should be tighter than IP, since you are always OOP and this sucks.
Not true. You should 3bet most from the blinds (BB v SB, BB v BTN, SB v BTN).

Last edited by Greg20; 03-26-2019 at 06:22 AM.
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:35 AM   #24
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

BTW I posted BB v BTN for some reason and hero is SB. Can't edit anymore so I post appropriate screen one more time:



I think Rin-Inky has reasons to say it's mixed strategy (x/c & cbet 1/3, BTW could you share frequencies?) but my guess x/c 100% may be better idea because we humans are not able to remember every spot + frequencies. At least I can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by txdome View Post
Umm what does the plo pre-flop matrix(I don't know what that is)say about what happens when the flop comes and you still have 85% of your stack to play with somebody who may outplay you in position?
Matrix is for pre so it doesn't says anything about that. But if you play vs someone who can easily outplay you post-flop good advice may be to learn to play better postflop and not to make a mistake pre, right?

BTW If you just call here you're not OOP vs player who can outplay you all of a sudden...? Don't get it, since obviously you still are. And on top of that you're OOP vs 2 players much more often (T87 + 8 high flushdraw is less appealing 3-way SRP than HU with lower SPR).

Last edited by Greg20; 03-26-2019 at 07:02 AM.
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Old 03-26-2019, 11:36 AM   #25
YouPayMyF458
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Re: 6-Max PLO400. Unsure Post Flop.

solver solver solver solver.
solver is a great tool.
but then you have to play all hands exactly like solver solutions says, pre and psotflop, which is impossible.

keep 3betting AT87 OOP and keep come in toruble on flops OOP with this hands,
yes solver says maybe 3bet, but then you must know every single hand and spot and what to do.

as you said, we are humans, not machines.

AT87 3bet OOP will bring you 100% in a lot of trouble and situations where you dont know what to do. like the guy who was opening this thread
keep it simple! dont make yourself hard decisions, dont bring yourself in hard decisions.
what i want to tell you guys, is, watch a little bit more on your Positions, its very important in PLO! OOP suckssssss
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