KKJ2hh in the CO 2300 eff, 5T20 3 limps and I pot to 130, 4 ways to the flop

5000, recreational player with high vpip
1500, recreational player, passive pf and tight post
1200, reg who plays bad ranges like off suited rundowns and 7664ss

Pot is 550
Flop 9h7h3d
Checks to me, Hero...?

Easy check back. You dont want to get blown off your equity. You have position. If you feel the need to protect, bet bricked or favorable turn cards, if checked to.


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If I pot, don't think I'm folding

Doesn’t one villain have 5k stack? You would stack off here with this villain with your hand ?


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Hero has 2.3k so if Hero pots, it is basically a re-pot all-in = only way Hero folds is if Villain re-pots and turns up his cards, showing AAxx with two hearts (or a hand like Ah99xh) which are basically the only combos that we mind getting it in. (Assuming we are properly rolled for the game.)

I don't have him covered, I only have 2300. Definitely agree that if I had even 500 more it becomes much more of a ch, and a little less it's a clear gii.

Don`t like checking here.SPR is not to high,and no need to give free cards to pair plus

gs,open enders or wraps.If somebody has a set or or some kind of nfd plus pair so be it,

but i think your hand is strong enough to bet here.

My problem with gii in this spot is we don't have very good visibility as to where we are in the hand. With the NFD, it would make for a more compelling case due to SPR..but 2nd nfd could basically be drawing dead. I think (barring any player specific read) gii here can't be very good

Then it's a clear bet

I pot it. Charge them for their draws. If the one bad rec player who has us covered ends up with a hand that beats us, c'est la PLO.

If your raising this pre what better flop are you looking for. I gii with these stacks. Gets more interesting if everyone covers you.

Stop playing so passively, your winrate will sky rocket when you do.

Sure you will run into the nut flush or a set 20-30% of the time, but you still have 35% equity vs those hands. There are a ton more hands you dominate that will call a large bet, plus knocking out ace high or one pair hands is a good result as well.

I disagree with pretty much everything you just said, including the stats you posted. I guess we have to agree to disagree but I will leave it with one point to ponder: To just think about the villains' flop calling range is a mistake. Its not about whether we feel comfortable betting the flop...but rather do we like our hand against a ch/raise from either of 3 described villains.

The most powerful advantage in PLO is position. IMO this is the best way to use it in this hand against these specific villains.

i'm betting 400 and probably stacking off with everyone but the big stack.
if i bet and 2 people go all in then i'd fold.

i used to check in this spot too often and my results have gotten a lot better once i stopped being so scared of "what if i bet and get check raised and get it in vs top set and the nut flush draw"possibilities.

Also with the kj don't forget about the super tilting offsuit queen ten runout! tilt equity is a real thing.

I would much rather bet/gii with a hand like Th8hxx than hero's hand , against these villains with these eff stacks.

Except for hero against one player, where effective stack is just over 100bb, effective stacks are less than 100bb.

Are we really going to play scared that the big stack just happens to have a better hand, especially after checking vs. three players?

Everybody keep saying "passive" and "scared money"..lol its far from that.

Shoving with a hand like Th8h has a much higher EV, because you can draw to the nuts AND because shoving folds better hands (namely better flush draws)

What the hell is our plan here? to protect our one pair hand? To charge draws?
Well guess what, these villains are not going to show up with those hands when they shove. And when they shove, we are going to lol call it off and hope no one shows up with something better than one pair + NFD..And when we lose our stack, we chalk it up as the variance in PLO..Well, its not variance, its poor planning for the hand.

What hand are they flatting pre and check/raising post that we don't have many outs against? They would have had to hit a miracle, like AhJh99.

So, we check the flop and a card hits that doesn't help us, now we just fold to any pressure? Should we just fold pre? Remember, we are against two recreational players and a bad reg, two of whom are 75bb.

Doesn’t have to be a miracle, just simply any AhXh. Villain with 5k stack has a strong range preflop or at least a very playable hand that can connect with a lot of flops. The reg has a lot of junky hands in his range. Not sure about the passive rec, because they don’t telegraph the strength of their hand this early in the hand. I doubt any will have top set as most will bet the flop. If betting flop will make them fold top two or T8, then betting flop is good. But I doubt they fold those hands. If we agree they won’t fold those hands and always just call a bet, then our range is not any more vulnerable by checking flop, as we can’t control outcome. But betting flop opens the action, now if first villain ships or if he flats then the second villain ships and third villain calls the ship, we have just paid dearly for information on their ranges.
If blank turn gets checked to hero, then I’m more comfortable to pot because I have more info on ranges. If a villain pots a blank turn, then we have position and more info to act accordingly.


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I bet 500, 5k stack chr to 2000, next player snap ships, fold

Hero....

yup....

Did the passive rec literally snap ship? i.e. as soon as first villain pots it, he beats him to it with his stack..or was it a two second pause type of snap ship?
That could be a tell.

but overall I don't think you have the 25% or so needed equity here against the shipping ranges.. fold

Didn't beat him into the pot, but snap ship.

As a read, first doesn't have many weak draws and his range is super weighted towards top set, second player didn't do any math and he typically tanks with non made hands.

Did you have an aggro image? Did they perceive you as auto potting every flop you raised with pre? If so, then yeah you can include top set in 5k villain's range...otherwise, most recs just lead out on a draw board with top set.

The best scenario is if both have sets. curious to see how your hand fares against top set and non nutted heart draws as well as middle set with straight draws

Check behind, always.
If you bet and get action you have in the best case a coin flip, but in most of these times you 're in really bad shape.
You shouldn't forget you play against three opponents, no matter how bad they are, you play against 12 cards.
I check that flop always behind

That's why you should check behind.
You are up against a set and a combodraw, the only possibility which makes your hand look better is if no-one has the nutflush draw, but if someone has it, you have only two outs.
But if you check that flop behind you avoid this tough decision now, with the possibility you make s mistake by folding the best hand, if both if them have only draws.

Before you bet the flop you should think what you accomplish with your bet and what you do in case of a Checkraise.
To bet that flop I want at least KKAx with nut flush draw, and if action comes I know I have enough outs to scoop the pot.