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5/5 live deep line check 5/5 live deep line check

03-01-2018 , 06:54 AM
9h 5/5 I got 6k stack on the button, sb very tight with 1,5k, bb reasonably tight with 1k.

I got QJ82ds, high suits on the btn. Straddle (1,5k loose passive), limp (2k, decent tightish), HJ (2,8k totally loose aggro) pots to 50 w/o looking at his cards. I call together with straddler and limper. Flop QJ7hh, I got spades and clubs. Back door clubs for me. HJ pots to 210, still no looking. I call, everyone else out. Turn Ad. Blind pots, 630€. I call. River 4d, no flush. HJ looks his cards and goes all in 1675€.

Line check on every street? I am not very comfortable with my decisions here. All in all, we end up on river with a weak holding, are we calling the river?
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03-01-2018 , 12:36 PM
if youre calling the turn its a trivial call now ...
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03-01-2018 , 12:39 PM
I probably would have just folded pre with SB, BB, straddle and limper behind me.

On flop, everyone checks, HJ pots, you call and everyone folds, correct? I think that is OK, I guess. Were you expecting everyone to fold? If so, I might have just re-potted.

Turn is not pretty for us, but if he's still blind, I guess calling one more isn't terrible if you like variance. River is a soul read. So sick, though. Not sure I can fold at this point.

Would help if you posted your hands more conventionally so they are easier to follow.
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03-01-2018 , 12:42 PM
Thinking about it, it's a call. You flatted the whole way, including flop and turn, with other players in the hand, so how strong can you be? He must know that and is putting you to the test (let's hope). Unfortunately, it's PLO, so a ton of hand beat you, but you bet a ton, too.
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03-01-2018 , 01:22 PM
Easy 3bet preflop for value, with the intention of calling any 4bet.

River is an easy call. villain has to bluff all of his weak holdings, of which he has plenty
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03-01-2018 , 03:47 PM
Clear fold pre flop.Reraise on the flop.I would call river and won`t feel bad whatever he have.
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03-01-2018 , 08:18 PM
This is one of those spots that without the live feel and history and tendencies it's hard to give proper advice. I will say against an unknown, or most standard players the river is a fold. We do have a rather unique situation here. Namely, an uber aggro villain and one who hasn't seen his cards. I will give my thoughts on every street:

Pre: We should without a doubt 3bet pre flop. Your range fares well against 4 random cards from villain. With the description of the other villains, they should fold the majority of their range to your reraise. So you are 3betting to isolate a "statistically" dominated range. You have position to dictate the action from flop onward. Your hand can pick up a lot of equity with most flops. So you would be betting flop with your monsters, your strong semi bluffs and your medium semi bluffs. you can check back flops that miss your hand, or flops that have a lot of backdoor potential.

AP, IF villain has truly mashed the button blind then its an easy call. IF villain looked at his cards on turn, then river is a toss up between a call and a fold. I say that because if he looked at his cards and continued to bet, his range must include Ax and KT. If he bet turn blind then it can be anything.

I will say when deciding to call flop, against this described villain, you should plan on getting the money in on the river, regardless of the runout..since villain is blind betting. So looking at it this way, river is an easy call.
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03-01-2018 , 08:50 PM
The only reason I prefer a fold pre to a 3bet is straddle. He's passive, but he's loose, so we probably aren't getting 4bet light, but we might get called light, and I doubt HJ is folding. Our hand loses a lot on many flops. Also, what if V "looks" at his cards (as he did on river) and re-pots our 3bet? Are we really going with this hand?

Also, what if the "decent tightish" player limps expecting HJ to pot it?
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03-01-2018 , 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
The only reason I prefer a fold pre to a 3bet is straddle. He's passive, but he's loose, so we probably aren't getting 4bet light, but we might get called light, and I doubt HJ is folding. Our hand loses a lot on many flops. Also, what if V "looks" at his cards (as he did on river) and re-pots our 3bet? Are we really going with this hand?

Also, what if the "decent tightish" player limps expecting HJ to pot it?
If main villain reports we flat and play poker in position. none of these other scenarios would change what our plan would be on different flop textures, as I said in my previous post. I don't think any of the other villains are going to call light. They will jam with their AAxxds, or call with their strong holdings and fold the rest
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03-01-2018 , 10:19 PM
Fold pre

If we are confident hj potted turn blind, ship it now, he might even incorrectly fold worse 2p to our line
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03-20-2018 , 12:07 AM
I don't think "ranges" matters here, since the maniac who hasn't seen his cards yet has no idea how to adjust to your "range". Your hand is only 51.1% against a random hand; although you get to save money when you flop nothing and he doesn't. So 3-betting MIGHT make sense so long as nobody else noticed he hasn't seen his hand; otherwise expect to get all in pre-flop with your dog and lose position and ability to fold when you flop nothing.

You should like flopping top two and have enough to raise on the flop (multi-way) or on the turn (heads up against a random 4 cards).
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03-20-2018 , 02:36 AM
Seems like all options are on the table pre. I lean toward the call.

Pot the flop. Seems crazy to give both the sb and straddle good odds to come along with draws when our hand is so vulnerable and the bettor is still blind.

Raise turn too. He literally hasn't looked at his cards and you have a vulnerable 2pr - the only reason to just call is to bait him to jam the river.

River is trivially easy call after the line we've taken so far. He's likely shoving nearly 100% in this situation.
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04-19-2018 , 01:39 AM
Raise flop -- even a min raise is fine as it puts tremendous pressure on the other players.

You are going to be in a terrible spot if the other players overcall and LDO check all their range to let him bet blind again.

As played you are in an extraordinarily weird spot at the river. You are only 54% against a completely random hand.

Given that the other players folded the flop to one bet, neither of them had KT, which gives him more KT combos.

The other players also didn't have AhXh which gives him some more Aces-up.

And you are in calldown mode which may make him more likely to be value betting than bluffing, especially since you may be calling with hearts and a bunch of his random 2pr hands hands don't *need* to bet (and probably shouldn't because it's hard for you to call worse).

I think it might actually be a fold. And... raise flop for information is maybe a thing, hah.

Interesting hand anyway... looking forward to results.

Last edited by chalupa; 04-19-2018 at 01:45 AM.
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