Hi all,

5/5 with $25 BTN straddle on, hero min-raises AdTh9d8s7c to $50 from EP over one SB limp, I min-raise most of my range with eff. stacks only $1,000, MP 3! $175, folds to hero who calls. I guess I could have overlimped, folded this ss version, or iso'd bigger too.

Flop ($400): Tc-9c-4s. Hero x/c $175 with bare top two and so-so OESD. I wanted to keep pot small here in case he has OP+nfd for instance or a combo draw.

Turn ($750): 2s, brining bdfd. Hero donk stuffs last $600, our equity should have improved unless he has both fds. (FWIW we have some blockers to them).

Thanks,
DT

I'm bringing the heat with Stack to Pot Ratio once again...

I'm not a fan of your reasoning on any part of this hand.

Preflop with this hand containing a suited ace and a ten is probably worth playing. Limp, raise pot or fold, BUT don't min-raise.
Preflop the effective stacks are $1,000 in a $25 straddle game. This is a 40bb short stack hand. I don't know why you are min-raising. If you are going to raise, then it should be for pot. Short stackers short stack for a reason. One of the reasons is to get all of their stack in as quickly as possible to realize their equity and then have the larger stacks battle for the remainder of the hand and if any of the larger stacks get another larger stack to fold, then the short stack actually gets to "over realize" his equity. At 40bb you need your stack in the pot as fast as possible on as early a street as possible and that is done by raising as large as possible.

On the flop, no matter if the hand played out preflop as written or you had raised pot, either way the Stack to Pot Ratio (SPR) is less than 4. This has been covered in several diffrent threads lately...

SPR 4 or less on the flop is shove or fold poker. You commit or you fold.

Therefore, on the flop, if you check, then it is either a check-raise or a check-fold. And SPR 4 or less is good enough to commit with bare top two pair. Your straight draw is nice additional equity. If you are going to check, then on this hand you should have check-raised on the flop. Leading is also fine.

Edit - doublepost

Fold pre, check-raise flop as played. Lead is probably better since good villain should find lots of check-backs.

This is way overvaluing a single-suited rundown from bad relative position with shallow stacks.

Also don't like min-raise in this spot with almost any holding. One of the main reasons we normally raise EP is to prevent blinds from seeing the flop too cheaply. The 5x straddle all ready achieves that.

i'd probably over limp pre personally

Not sure about pre but SPR is only 2. Has to be correct to get this in.

I’d buy in deeper if the straddle is happening frequently..

Pre is tricky at 40bb.. I think that hand is strong deep but kinda becomes mediocre short.

Those rundowns have way more playability post when you can flop straights w a big freerolll w lots of money behind.

Let me start off with a 4-card Omaha comment. If I was talking to someone that knew how to play poker, but had never played Omaha, the first thing I would tell them is that 4-card Omaha is a game of straights.

This is a 5-card Omaha hand. The way I would describe 5-card Omaha is as a game of nut flushes and straights. I would say 5-card Omaha is even more of a straight game than 4-card Omaha.

DumbosTrunk’s hand is AdTh9d8s7c. The hand has the nut flush draw component. The hand has the perfect rundown straight draw component. And the hand includes the all important TEN. You can’t make a straight without a TEN or a FIVE and having it in your hand instead of needing it to come on the board increases the strength of DumbosTrunk’s hand. The hand sure looks playable. There is a bottom to every range and if you think it is a fold, then fold, but I am playing it. And for comparison, in 4-card Omaha at a 40bb short stack, I would play down to a "suited ace+perfect rundown" of A765/sa. I think I just gave multiple legitimate reasons why this is a playable hand. Therefore, the question for me is mostly do I open-limp or open-raise.

This thread had the MP 3-bet, but for the example below I want to keep things pure and just have Hero go heads up against the Button straddle. The Button always has the ultimate position and that position will be used to illustrate why I think Hero should preflop open-raise.

I think it is an open-raise because of the effective $1,000 stacks with a $25 straddle making this a 40bb short stack situation. And I don’t know if anyone has done any work on short stacking in live PLO, but the answer might be you never open limp a short stack EP. Here is my reasoning. The game is a $25 Button straddle. If You open-limp in EP with an effective $1,000 stack (40bb), then if everyone besides the Button folds, then you are out of position with a still very deep SPR of 16. Let that sink in for a moment. SPR 1 is a pot sized bet left. SPR 4 is two pot sized bets left. SPR 13 is three pots sized bets left. This flop will be SPR 16. There are more than 3 pot sized bets in a heads up pot out of position. You in EP will be out of position facing brutal leverage from the Button. The only way to get above SPR 13’s 3 pots sized bets heads up is if someone raises. You are not the one in position. Button gets to act last on every street and can play perfectly on deciding when to put the raise in if you decide to bet on any street. You are ****ed.

Now let’s change it around and have you open-raise from EP. If you raise the pot to $85 and only the Button calls, then the SPR on the flop will be SPR 5. Look what just happened. Your open-raising has eliminated a lot of the Button’s positional advantage since it is SPR 5. I have gone on and on about how SPR 4 or less is shove or fold poker. This will be SPR 5 and that is close enough. After your preflop open-raise you could cbet the flop and instead of the Button pressuring you on this board, you are pressuring the Button. Or at the very least, you can play a lot easier out of position for SPR 5 on this flop even with the board being two flushed. At SPR 16 that two flush would be a huge concern for you.

I wouldn’t be surprised if short-stacked live poker is never an open-limp. And as one real world example, I’ll ask you all a question. If you were playing a hand online and it was folded to you on the Button and you had a raising hand and then you looked and saw that both the SB and BB were short stacked, would you raise pot or would you raise less than pot to still keep the stacks deeper? Ah ha. You would raise less than pot to keep the stacks deep. A large raise helps the short stack out of position. Now flip it back around to this hand DumbosTrunk is out of position. Open-raising the pot out of position here sounds like the best play.