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High Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 2/4 and above pot-limit Omaha poker

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Old 02-12-2018, 01:58 PM   #1
dc-ohio
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5/5/15(rock) PLO

playing 5/5/15(rock) PLO and we are on the button but first to act as the rock is to our right.

Ad5dAh4h

Stacks vary from 400-4k, we have ~1600 in front. Table is fairly aggressive, most pots are raised pre. Straddler is very aggressive.

Our image is fairly nitty preflop. When we enter with a raise early most people are putting us on good aces and we are rarely being 3-bet.

Is it worth trying to limp here first to act and try to get in a big 3 or 4 bet if it gets back to us?
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Old 02-12-2018, 05:07 PM   #2
Javanewt
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

With your table description, I like the limp/raise (as long as they aren't expecting it from you -- do you ever just limp?).
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:09 PM   #3
SolarAU
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

Limp re-raise is still going to give away the strength of your hand as a RFI would, if not more so although in that scenario you might be able to lower to SPR sufficiently to make your decisions much simpler post flop.
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:25 PM   #4
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

I would just raise and hope you get 3-bet by someone who thinks you're range is wider than it is since you're on the button.

I don't think you'll be able to get enough of your stack in PF if you go for the limp, reraise.

And if people are able to put you on good aces when you raise from early position, you need to loosen up your range.
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Old 02-12-2018, 07:56 PM   #5
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

Don’t like lrr. Add some hands where you raise more frequently in late position. Is this at Aria? Lrr in my experience doesn’t dramatically thin the field in that game and it telegraphs your hand.


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Old 02-12-2018, 08:22 PM   #6
dc-ohio
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

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Originally Posted by auralex14 View Post
I would just raise and hope you get 3-bet by someone who thinks you're range is wider than it is since you're on the button.

I don't think you'll be able to get enough of your stack in PF if you go for the limp, reraise.

And if people are able to put you on good aces when you raise from early position, you need to loosen up your range.
I have been lately. My image in previous sessions followed me to this one.
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:04 AM   #7
monikrazy
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

Raise, it doesn't have to be full pot
If villains only put you on aaxx hands in this spot you are playing too tight and need to spend some time thinking about spots to widen your range
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:13 AM   #8
Purasevic
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

If you limp reraise some player that covers you,spr will still be high on the flop.

So the problem is your raising range,which is perceived as only aces often.I would

then don`t mind min raising here.
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:43 AM   #9
Javanewt
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

To me, if they put you on Aces regardless (and they are not going to 3bet you), I'd rather do the limp/raise and get rid of a few of them or hope someone feels committed and re-pots. If you raise now, they are all going to flat hoping to crack your Aces. Agree that you need to change up your raising range.

With the straddle, we only have 100bb, so I want to do whatever I can to gii pre.
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Old 02-13-2018, 12:07 PM   #10
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

I just raise here. Say we go for l/rr and there are a few limps to straddle (say $60 in the pot) who pots, so he makes it $75 to go. We repot and make it 225. If called SPR is still like 3:1, and we're completely face up with AA. Better to just raise the first time, hope you get 3-bet so you can gii, and if not you get to play a bloated pot on the BTN with good aces without being face up. If you're $1000 deep I like the l/rr.
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Old 02-20-2018, 05:35 AM   #11
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

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Originally Posted by MIB211 View Post
I just raise here. Say we go for l/rr and there are a few limps to straddle (say $60 in the pot) who pots, so he makes it $75 to go. We repot and make it 225.
Forgive me if I'm wrong with the math, but I come up with:
CO posts 15, Hero limps, blinds fold, 2 limps, MP raises to 100, Hero raises to 370, CO folds, MP calls.

Or possibly:
CO posts 15, Hero limps, blinds fold, 2 limps, MP raises to 100, CO calls 100, Hero raises to 470, MP calls, CO calls.

In scenario 1 it's HU and the pot will be 810 with 1230 behind or an SPR around 1.5. I like this (and it let's us gamboool).

In scenario 2 it's 3 ways and the pot will be 1480 with 1130 back or an SPR around 0.76. I like this too.
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Old 02-20-2018, 10:30 AM   #12
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

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Originally Posted by dc-ohio View Post
playing 5/5/15(rock) PLO and we are on the button but first to act as the rock is to our right.

Ad5dAh4h

Stacks vary from 400-4k, we have ~1600 in front. Table is fairly aggressive, most pots are raised pre. Straddler is very aggressive.

Our image is fairly nitty preflop. When we enter with a raise early most people are putting us on good aces and we are rarely being 3-bet.

Is it worth trying to limp here first to act and try to get in a big 3 or 4 bet if it gets back to us?
That's your first problem right there. You need to raise more PF in position to widen your perceived range so that when you actually have a monster hand you have the opportunity to 4bet AI.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:39 PM   #13
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

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Originally Posted by YALLIGNENT View Post
That's your first problem right there. You need to raise more PF in position to widen your perceived range so that when you actually have a monster hand you have the opportunity to 4bet AI.
exactly
and if you're gonna limp raise (which i don't do but maybe should start) mix in some nice double suited run down type hands as well. it's always nice when someone has to fold kings in a 4 bet pot when the flop is 822 bc they put you on aces. or when you smash a ten high flop and they go with their dominated gapped one suited hand that they 3 bet called with and flopped some kind of pair and figure they're flipping with aces.
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Old 02-20-2018, 02:58 PM   #14
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

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Limp re-raise is still going to give away the strength of your hand as a RFI would, if not more so although in that scenario you might be able to lower to SPR sufficiently to make your decisions much simpler post flop.
Yeah the problem w/ LRR is that if we can't get SPR down to ~ 1 preflop, we open ourselves up for exploitation. Like if I could throw 15 in preflop, have the next dude raise to 70, collect 2 cold calls and a call from the straddle, and I can go pump to 430, I'd do it.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:33 AM   #15
Andrew Boccia
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

Limping is bad theory. This hand should be raised for pot as well as other hands that push an equity edge.

You could consider limping some marginal hands that have nutty distribution which do not push a big equity edge, (A886ds, ATT5, etc.) This could be balanced by limping weaker Aces (AwAx8y3y, AwAxAy4y, etc)

Limping is a viable strategy in the blinds if a straddle is squeezing you, this is because protecting your calling range is a lot more important (you are incentivized to call a lot in blinds.)
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:08 AM   #16
Javanewt
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

So you guys are happy to raise/pot it and get four or five callers? Because according to OP, that's what is most likely going to happen.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:22 PM   #17
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

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So you guys are happy to raise/pot it and get four or five callers? Because according to OP, that's what is most likely going to happen.
with double suited aces absolutely
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:53 PM   #18
Javanewt
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

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with double suited aces absolutely
With 100bb? I guess it makes it easy to fold on the flop if you don't hit a very good flop, because I'm not continuing unless I do.
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Old 02-27-2018, 03:25 PM   #19
DustyA
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

how about a weak raise, min raise or something like that to induce calls/raises or to go multi way in which case we play our hand for set, combo draw, or overpair + FD?
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Old 02-27-2018, 03:47 PM   #20
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

Amazing how far this subforum has fallen in the past few years. Used to be one of the best places for knowledge.

Somehow OmahaDonk who most used to assume was troll is now providing the best advice.

Live poker is about exploitation. Generally with a hand of this strength you'd have to come in with a full pot sized raise from a technical standpoint and then if you get 3b you can 4b most of your stack in pre flop. This is conventional.

If your image is mega tight, or if like most FR live games there isn't really any 3bets happening then it could be worth limping. Theory dictates we want to play most of our hands from the button and therefore we should have a reasonably large limp range and people will choose to raise behind this.

Therefore in this particular situation I think limp is a fine strategy with the hope to put in a big squeeze when the action is back to us and leave us with a good post flop SPR. A word of warning would be that theory dictates we usually come in for a pot size raise because if we do get to 4b most of the time we'll be able to go HU for the pot with our AA. In this squeeze situation the pot is more likely to go 3/4/5 way limiting our equity post flop on average. This is still +EV but higher variance.
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Old 02-27-2018, 04:58 PM   #21
dc-ohio
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

Thanks for all the advice. If you are interested in how it played out here it is:

Spoiler:


I've opened up my raising range a bit and have seen some positive effects from it.
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Old 02-27-2018, 06:08 PM   #22
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

What was the run out?


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Old 03-01-2018, 03:41 PM   #23
Javanewt
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

Awesome.
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Old 03-20-2018, 12:27 AM   #24
Louie Landale
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

Your hand plays well against the field and there is plenty money to be made dead last with top set or nut flushes disguised nut draws. Plus you can snag a 2-3-rag flop. There are not a lot of flops where you will invest reluctantly. You can fold to big black card flops and certainly if you flop 4-5-rag.

This is a good hand if you don't get much in. If you get 30% in you may be pot committed, and I don't know whether knocking out the eventual winner balances out that you may be investing drawing slim.

Your primary objective is to get all in. To do that they shouldn't know you have Aces, so raising the max doesn't seem right. But if you raise small then you disguise your hand. My crude calculation says raise his $15 to $40 and invite a 3-bet, and can realistically get 50% all in pre-flop, adding some dead money to-boot.

Raising small lets you either play multi-way with position and nut hands with lots of money behind you; or get mostly all-in with your good AA hand.

You should add more raising hands, but only if you think you can play par or better after the flop. Making the pot bigger when you don't know what kind of marginal hands are small winners is a losing raise. Otherwise keep the pots small and hope you get paid when you make the nuts. If that's not realistic, then find another game.

-Louie
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Old 03-20-2018, 02:43 AM   #25
Pirate1081
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Re: 5/5/15(rock) PLO

Too deep to limp/raise. Barring getting very lucky and having a 4b opportunity you'll end up playing a 3b pot still pretty deep, oop, with your hand practically face-up.

That table image is a huge problem.
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