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High Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 2/4 and above pot-limit Omaha poker

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Old 01-23-2019, 04:15 PM   #1
wes c. addle
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5/2/2 live - flopped nuts facing check/raise

(* - this is officially a 2/2 table but most hands are button-straddled to $5. Most buy-in for $500. I think the villain in this hand is 2p2er Black Lotus, who often posts in this forum).

A few of the details are sketchy.. if Black Lotus reads he can correct them.

Hero - mid40's rec, prob perceived as competent. Historically 2/5 NL reg, but 2/5 game drying up non-weekends, so spending some time at PLO tables. Generally plays tight, has been seen today check-calling after hitting nut straight on turn, then check-calling river vs a set after FD came in on river. Another hand or two probably had me looking cautious post-flop. That said, been running in God Mode and stack up to about $1750 from $500 buy-in after less than 2 hours.

Villain - early 40s(?) semi-pro, I think. Used to play NL, but probably switched to mainly PLO. TAGgy, thinking player, solid. This day he was watching videos on his phone when not in a hand, but also paid attention/didn't slow the game down. He seemed to have been card dead/flop dead up to now, not playing many pots.

The hand: 7 handed (couple guys away from table) - this hand was NOT straddled

Hero - UTG+1 with 1800ish
Villain - BB with 600 or so

Hero has 4467

UTG (omc) calls 2, Hero calls, 2 others call, Villain/BB raises to 20. UTG calls, Hero calls, MP calls.

Flop (80): 589

Villain checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 50, CO calls 50, villain c/r POT to 280. Villain had about 250-300 behind (not sure how much CO had).

Decision?
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Old 01-23-2019, 04:33 PM   #2
Javanewt
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Re: 5/2/2 live - flopped nuts facing check/raise

I probably just fold pre-flop. As played, it sounds weak, but I let it go, especially with CO behind us. We could easily be chopping -- and that's if we are not outdrawn.

Seriously, we hate most of the deck.
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Old 01-23-2019, 05:23 PM   #3
therunbad
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Re: 5/2/2 live - flopped nuts facing check/raise

thats just so marginal to limp this hand utg+1,
you have no future blockers, villain is probably on a free roll.

but you cant fold either so put the money in and hope for a chop against bb
and if CO has a hand that he cant fold and is deeper then BB hope for bricks to win a side pot against CO.

calling and folding is no option

still a combo draw like AJdT9c is a decent favourite against your made hand.
because of that you should have hands like that where you flop the nuts and cant improve in your checking range, i mean you decided to play this cards and if you flop it, just go with it
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Old 01-24-2019, 12:06 AM   #4
+EVillain
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Re: 5/2/2 live - flopped nuts facing check/raise

the problem with playing these kinds of hands is that we end up in these kinds of situations, so many postflop headaches can be cured in pre-flop selection

any 6, 7, T, J, Q, or diamond is probably bad news, and if a 5, 8, or 9 hits that could also be bad news. the only runnout that keeps us safe are the non-diamond 2, 3, 4, K, and aces (15 safe outs, minus your two 4's=13 safe, and we need two safe outs to hit consecutively). we are unblocking diamonds, and we also could be chopping regardless.
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Old 01-24-2019, 12:17 AM   #5
Alpha Fish
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Re: 5/2/2 live - flopped nuts facing check/raise

fold pre, fold now
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Old 01-24-2019, 12:53 AM   #6
KT_Purple
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Re: 5/2/2 live - flopped nuts facing check/raise

i'm not folding this hand pre

seems pretty important how much CO has behind this is a pretty tricky spot, even with the nuts you can be as much as a 30% dog, I don't want the CO calling and we do not close the action so i think folding is ok, I don't think what V1 has matters, we can get it in vs him even just call to see if we can get a blank on the turn but with a player behind folding seems better
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Old 01-24-2019, 12:57 AM   #7
PokerPlayingGamble
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Re: 5/2/2 live - flopped nuts facing check/raise

fold pre

230 dead and another 500 to stack off so u need around 40% equity. I think you should gamble, u might see something like over pair + NFD or dry top set from time to time, hopefully often enough to balance out the times u r against nuts + redraw.
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Old 01-24-2019, 01:21 AM   #8
Sol Reader
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Re: 5/2/2 live - flopped nuts facing check/raise

I don't fold flop. Preflop is how there is still money in poker.
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:03 AM   #9
wes c. addle
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Re: 5/2/2 live - flopped nuts facing check/raise

Thanks for responses.

NL is my game, still learning PLO. While I have learned to tighten up my preflop range, I'm not 'there' yet. I assume position is a key component here, and most would play this hand on the button?

I was overly focused on V1 in the hand, and am not sure of CO stack, although certainly relevant. I think he had 500-700.

I ended up folding. Was just too concerned that I was either chopping but giving away a free-roll, or up against set+FD or other big draw that had me behind. V1 is certainly a solid, experienced PLO player, so I just can't think of really *any* hands he could flip over that I'd be happy to GII against.

Maybe V1 will chime in with his hand, I'm curious.

As played, CO also folded to the C/R.

Thanks again.
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Old 01-24-2019, 02:23 PM   #10
KT_Purple
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Re: 5/2/2 live - flopped nuts facing check/raise

if he only had about 500 I probably get it in, it just sucks when you pile in a bunch of money only to find the CO has the exact same hand but better redraws and you've punted your whole stack, or even worse when the first guy has the exact same hand and the CO has the draw

this reminds me of a hand i played when i first started PLO I had flopped 79T holding 68 and got it in for 250 bigs and villain showed up with a complete wrap with flush draw and somehow I held both runouts to scoop (ran it twice) and after the hand i saw that I was only 30% vs his exact hand but was actually behind a number of other draws too

I would never fold this hand pre tho, it's actually a super strong hand, but I think i just pot pre, there is just a lot of value in having the wheel draw with a redraw and pair in your hand and the ability to flush

Last edited by KT_Purple; 01-24-2019 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 01-24-2019, 02:56 PM   #11
therunbad
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Re: 5/2/2 live - flopped nuts facing check/raise

Quote:
Originally Posted by KT_Purple View Post
I would never fold this hand pre tho, it's actually a super strong hand, but I think i just pot pre, there is just a lot of value in having the wheel draw with a redraw and pair in your hand and the ability to flush



you gotta be kidding the OP, if not just

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Reader View Post
I don't fold flop. Preflop is how there is still money in poker.
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:01 PM   #12
Sol Reader
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Re: 5/2/2 live - flopped nuts facing check/raise

Quote:
Originally Posted by wes c. addle View Post
Thanks for responses.

NL is my game, still learning PLO.
Good luck on your journey. That said, PLO is actually not that different than NL; it would be incorrect in NL to overcall wide with analogous hands as well, and live NLHE players often do make this mistake also.
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:08 PM   #13
Black Lotus
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Re: 5/2/2 live - flopped nuts facing check/raise

I vaguely remember this hand, I had been pretty card dead. If I recall, I had something like 9JQA w nut diamonds and nut gutshot.

I agree that folding this hand pre typically is better than limp calling. Generally, if you flop a set and straight, you have the deck pretty crippled and wont get a ton of action. Otherwise, you flop the nuts and are still in this spot.

By the way, I appreciate the complements. A lot of the regs in that room see me as pretty spewy, and some see me as a nit. Guess I'm doing something right, at least....
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Old 01-28-2019, 03:34 AM   #14
BDHarrison
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Re: 5/2/2 live - flopped nuts facing check/raise

Quote:
Originally Posted by wes c. addle View Post
NL is my game, still learning PLO. While I have learned to tighten up my preflop range, I'm not 'there' yet. I assume position is a key component here, and most would play this hand on the button?
I would only play this OTB if there was no preflop raise and the blinds don't raise very often in limped pots. You can play more hands with good position, but good position mostly just means the button moreso than in hold em.
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Old 01-28-2019, 05:24 AM   #15
OmahaDonk
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Re: 5/2/2 live - flopped nuts facing check/raise

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Originally Posted by BDHarrison View Post
I would only play this OTB if there was no preflop raise and the blinds don't raise very often in limped pots
That's fine if we only care about straights, but what happens when we flop bottom set in a 7 way limper pot?
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Old 01-28-2019, 10:20 AM   #16
BDHarrison
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Re: 5/2/2 live - flopped nuts facing check/raise

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Originally Posted by OmahaDonk View Post
That's fine if we only care about straights, but what happens when we flop bottom set in a 7 way limper pot?
I'd consider folding if someone bets the flop.
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