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3/6 4 bet pot

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04-11-2010 , 03:30 PM

Praetor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,807

The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $744.00
CO: $1076.95
Hero (BTN): $1531.40
SB: $659.00
BB: $630.50

Pre Flop: ($9.00) Hero is BTN with 4

1 fold, CO raises to $21, Hero raises to $72, 1 fold, BB calls $66, CO raises to $291, Hero calls $219, 1 fold

Flop: ($657.00) 2

(2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($657.00) 9

(2 players)
CO bets $328.50, He has $457 left

Villain is 79/33 over 40 hands. Despite his looseness, I imagine he almost always has Aces hee. When he checks flop, I think getting it in is +ev, but hes never folding, so checking to hit is more +ev, right?

On turn, I think he still has naked aces sometimes, so do I have any folding equity against that? Does he have hearts/straight/2p too much for me to continue?

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04-11-2010 , 03:45 PM

Scipio

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,508

I would fold to the 4-bet, you are dominated by BB so often.

Flop check´s seems standard, on the turn i still put him on Aces or better and he´s a fish... don´t like a move here...

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04-11-2010 , 03:48 PM

Praetor

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Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,807

Well against Aces without anything else, I cant fold because of my equity

I may have some FE against naked aces, but have to consider how much his extra cards might be

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04-11-2010 , 03:49 PM

Praetor

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Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,807

BB was 44/7 he can haev a very wide range, although I agree calling the 4 bet is pretty close, it may be a fold, other opinions?

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04-11-2010 , 04:02 PM

Scipio

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,508

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praetor

Well against Aces without anything else, I cant fold because of my equity

I may have some FE against naked aces, but have to consider how much his extra cards might be

29,6% against random aces. But i give you less equity because of his line. He isn´t betting his aces on the flop, but on the turn he is willing to. He could also slowplay and you have a little bit more reversed implied odds than him with. In cases where he has a higher rundown (even if unlikely) you are dead...

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04-12-2010 , 02:53 AM

Hoopster81

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Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 7,277

If BB is good, it probably is a fold pre but I don't know if I ever make it

His flop check it weird - I think we have FE or somehow the best hand enough that I'd shove it

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04-12-2010 , 03:09 AM

Doorbread

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Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9,750

His bet sizing / flop check leads me to believe that he somehow has a monster

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04-12-2010 , 09:54 AM

donkey_king

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Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,037

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praetor

BB was 44/7 he can haev a very wide range, although I agree calling the 4 bet is pretty close, it may be a fold, other opinions?

Can someone explain the math behind folding to a 4bet?

Like checking back flop. Tough spot on turn. I'd fold because
a. don't think we have fe,(but if we think we do then shove) and
b. as someone said we can be dead sometimes and our equity is only 29.5% against random aaxx.

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04-12-2010 , 11:52 AM

two2brains

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Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,636

after seeing that flop your hand is almost never going to improve on the turn so you basically have two options.

1. bluff the flop (enough to put him all in)

2. check behind and fold to any turn bet (basically just give up on flop).

i prefer option 1 cause option 2 never makes u any money.

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04-12-2010 , 01:09 PM

#10

Praetor

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What are you talking about, I improve on alot of turns

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04-12-2010 , 01:45 PM

#11

two2brains

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Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,636

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praetor

What are you talking about, I improve on alot of turns

im assuming we're putting him on AAxx most of the time and the only cards im happy to see on the turn is another 8 or the 4 of spades. The 7 of spades still only gives us 46% against AAxx and that's only if he doesn't have Ax spades or the two xx cards tied into the straight or straight draw or two pair himself.

I don't think he ever folds to a shove on the turn after leading with only $457 behind.

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04-12-2010 , 01:55 PM

#12

CZI

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,351

Quote:

Originally Posted by two2brains

im assuming we're putting him on AAxx most of the time and the only cards im happy to see on the turn is another 8 or the 4 of spades. The 7 of spades still only gives us 46% against AAxx and that's only if he doesn't have Ax spades or the two xx cards tied into the straight or straight draw or two pair himself.

I don't think he ever folds to a shove on the turn after leading with only $457 behind.

We have 4 cards in this game, have you noticed?

Edit: On topic, I actually thought we had a flush draw and was thinking it's pretty close, now that I saw we don't I can't possibly grasp why we're thinking about continuing if we're 29% in the best case scenario and sometimes dead.

Edit2: Not a fan of pre since we're not closing the action, our relative position is bad and we're not unlikely to be sharing cards with BB, but I agree that this is only a fold on paper and that ingame I'd click call too.

Last edited by CZI; 04-12-2010 at 02:00 PM.

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04-12-2010 , 02:14 PM

#13

two2brains

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Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,636

i would never consider calling turn. And his bet sizing on the turn doesn't look like his aces are naked anymore.

assuming we don't fold pre I'll stick with this..

betting pot on flop > checking to turn for the miracle 8 or 4s and shutting down when missed > calling turn

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04-12-2010 , 02:17 PM

#14

cts

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Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 7,736

doing anything but folding the turn seems insane if that's what youre asking

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04-12-2010 , 03:12 PM

#15

Praetor

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Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,807

two2brains what the hell are you talking about, you realise we can hit two pair?

Cole, your probably right, but I think its closer than most other people seem to, maybe I'm imagining folding equity, or maybe something about his timing made me more suspicious than I should have been

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04-12-2010 , 03:16 PM

#16

cts

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Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 7,736

i don't really think it's close, i'm suspicious too -- that we're drawing dead though, not that we have fold equity

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04-12-2010 , 04:39 PM

#17

two2brains

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Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,636

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praetor

you realize that hes not holding AA, he is holding AAXX. You don't have any fold equity and even if you did hit 2 pair on the river there is a good chance its no good as cole was saying.

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04-13-2010 , 12:36 AM

#18

Sh1LLa

adept

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 978

yea but what's wrong with checking to the turn? i agree with folding the turn but i don't see how you question checking the flop behind if we think he has bare aces.
any 4, 5, 6, 8 gives us what's likely to be the best hand, any 3, 7 or

gives us more outs.

otherwise i have to agree 100% with Doorbread, somehow just looks like he hit the flop bigtime. wouldn't he just be shoving naked aces with around 1 PSB left? smells super fishy imo, i'm thinking AAJJ or AA22.

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04-13-2010 , 12:54 AM

#19

ike

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Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,635

I'd probably shove flop. 40 hands of a guy playing 79/33 doesn't seem like enough to be certain you're not getting a fold. I'd definitely fold to that turn bet. Whatever he has, he's not folding and you're way behind.

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04-13-2010 , 01:13 AM

#20

LearnedfromTV

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Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 8,108

i honestly can't think of a hand I would check on the flop in his shoes. I guess ****ty aces makes some kind of sense

check back flop, fold turn can't come up with logic for anything else.

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04-13-2010 , 09:15 AM

#21

CZI

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,351

The only hands I can come up with that he'll 4bet pre and check flop with are AKQTds for air and AAJJ/AA88/AA22 for monsters. Surely he's never ever checking AAxx with 1PSB left, specifically not crappy AAxx. I don't expect him to check a hand like AAJ8 either since it's not that invulnerable equitywise and if you check back the flop, he'll be puking on quite some turns.

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