4bet > call > openfold pre > fold prelogin > fold to 3bet IMO.

I'm a little confused why people like b/f so much. What does he call with? We have 3 Kings!!! Also he could have AAxx for the blocker raise.
c/r on the flop is a little more appealing to me than bet3bet get it in.

Yeah, after a little thought I'm not so sure I like bet/folding better than check/calling or even bet/calling.

I really don't get at all why people like 4-betting preflop though. I play more aggro preflop than the vast majority of players and it still looks like total spew to me with mediocre kings. Even if he's 3-betting wide, aces are probably going to make up about 20% of his range here and every time he has them we're getting completely raised off the hand (or getting it in with approximately the same equity as if we got raised off the hand). In addition, we're not even gaining much when he doesn't have aces since he's going to put us on a big pair when we 4-bet anyway and play almost perfectly postflop. I mean, if the stacks were shorter it would be fine, but when there's a full PSR left I don't like it at all.

I was going to make some simplified calculations but this gets really complex very fast and involves making alot of assumptions about hero/Eric's play. That and i dont know how to calculate equity of KK87 vs top15% -AA**.

In short 4betting is good because we get more money in good preflop it simplifies postflop play it gives us an information advantage and it is difficult for us to make a mistake on the flop OOP.. If he 3bets top 25% of hands and never coldcalls AA** we will get 5bet 10% of the time and i dunno where the cutoff point is but he def has to be 3betting very wide for hero to profitably 4bet this hand, rest of the time we have odds to stack off on about 70% of flops mostly only have a decision when an ace flops and we have naked kings.

PSB the flop.

I'm interested in the math behind 4betting this, me and a ton of good highstakes regulars would think 4betting here is just completely disgusting and just really bad. I'd be surprised if it's even close

It's not close vs. peachy unless he's on tilt.

Even vs. fish, I doubt peachy is ever 3 betting 25% in position. If he is, he's either on tilt or on a very good run of cards.

But if its double suited, its def a four bet with this read, right.

i would estimate preflop edge vs his 4betcalling range at 60/40 probably closer to 65/35 if he never folds to 4bet pre. yes Postflop play is gonna difficult on some percentages of flops but the other option which is calling his 3bet makes postflop even more difficult IMO and forces you to play more streets OOP.

i don't know what "wide" means but less than 10% can not be considered wide 3betting for a highstakes player so if we use the number 25% which would include hands like 479Tds we would get 5bet 10% of the time if he never cc AA** preflop.

9/10 he calls preflop and we have an information advantage in that he can't have AA**. Unfortunately if OP is correct we also reveal some information about our hand strength.
the tenth time we either fold or call assuming we always fold we lose 2250$
9 times we gain 4500/10 =450$x9=4050.
seems like breakeven point completely ignoring postflop play would be around 12.5% 3bet percentage.


you can use whatever numbers you think are more accurate and take into consideration postflop play and meta game considerations of 3/4 bet ranges preflop etc. i also think most people tend to overestimate the value eric has postflop here..our hand dominates a decent chunk of his flop get it in range.
FWIW i wouldn't mind openlimping this hand and calling a raise if you aren't planning on 4betting it. he probably plays an weaker range if you limp and if he is 3betting wide he is never limpin along.

I think we have a severe disadvantage postflop here with 4.7k in the pot to the flop and 7.2k to the flop. He can stackoff pretty correctly in most spots while we're just gonna be blindly pot/calling most flops, Do we also pot/call the A-high flops?

No and i think this is where we are most likely to make mistakes postflop. knowing that he doesn't have AA** and the fact that he will have to call as an underdog on a fairly large% of flops helps us alot though.

I think if my assumption is true that he calls/raises 100% of our 4bets i would be less inclined to bet ace high flops. Assuming a generic highstakes player, because i don't know this specific players tendencies, we don't have any fold equity postflop if he has A*** and since we don't have FE and ace high flops are often WA/WB scenarios we should probably check and guess.

In practical play i would start 4betting this exact hand if he has a 3bet% exceeding 15-20%. 12.5% is breakeven point* but not enough because of postflop play IMO.

*all my numbers are only rough estimates but i don't think they are that far off. metagame and balance issues changes things alot. i.e an option would be to start checking top set on A** flops for balancing reasons. Also having complete information on both players 2/3/4/5ranges preflop and postflop play would make life easier.

thinking the same here.. bet/fold is a pretty vulnerable spot depending on his read of you IMO

What's the point of calling his three bet if you're going to connect with the flop as much as you did, but still not know how to play it? Were you setmining with KK? or trying for a straight with the 78?

If you don't know how to handle a good tough player having position on you and three betting you at will, leave the table.

I like what iggy said about the river.

Say, you do c/r the flop, what is a good amount to bet, should you try to induce him to come over the top, or mash the pot button??/ Just a guess, but I think he has AAJ10

easy c/c. he wouldn't be betting a gutshot most of the way. he's mostly either value betting the river or bluffing i'd say

he's either value betting the river or bluffing? really?

well, he isn't wrong.




to those who want to 4-bet, are you folding to a 5-bet?

shouldnt we be talking about

his 3bet frequency with you on cutoff and him on the button

why you didnt 4 bet him considering, nut AA hands are gonna be the only aces in his range

your reason for not c/r the flop.

your reason for not leading pot on the flop.

your reason for not potting the turn.

your question and how it has absolutely no bearing on anything whatsoever and is easily the least important part of the hand, solely because your now looking at the nuts or close. you have 0 aces 0 jacks and 9 nines. its a math question and anyone who gave you an answer without a ****ton of math cant give you a correct answer.

even if they did the math it wouldnt be correct because they know nothing about game flow, tendencies, %'s and other things specific to the game being played.


but you cant fold for any bet ever as played. he's gonna bet alot of the time and not have it alot. or have some huge hand slowplayed on the flop that either became the nuts or close (aqq9dd) or somethnig

bet however much the website you're playing on will allow you

that doesnt seem correct considering villian and op are both winning hs regs. IP in Omaha is a time to get crazy against regs and play tighter against the fishes. It may seem counterintuitive but obviously your making statements that back up my argument.

4 betting pre may be good if both blinds are fishes?

there's like a hundo things to look at in regards to this hand and why to 4bet or not.

one would argue that open limping would be okay here and put me in that camp.

open limping the cutoff is the most underrated play in omaha and obviously im not doing myself any favors by saying so

No, he was lying. Sometimes Eric checks back.