This hand was played in the 25/50 PLO section of an 8 game mix on stars.

I have played tons of NL over the years with this opponent, but never PLO. He tends to be on the slightly more passive side of things, but is still very good and I'd imagine he is relatively similar in plo?

Oh, this is Ansky on Krantz's account.

5k stacks, Empire2000 opens CO and I flat QxQc9c8x otb. 1 blind calls. Flop is 9x2c4c. Blind checks and Empire bets about 450. What do you like best here? Clearly there are lots of hands which we can get it in bad against if we raise, but we are rarely completely crushed (just kk, aa with higher draw), and there are some hands we can get him to fold (aaxx, random Kx club draws, whatever).

thoughts?

Flat or raise?

the description you are giving is of empire and not the blind, correct?

Definitely flat.

Like you said, you're getting it in bad versus his bet/get it in range. You're also not in good shape if you raise and the blind then ships.

Use your position and flat. You might have the best hand, but if not, there are lots of turn cards that improve your hand, or that you can represent to get him to fold currently better hands like naked Aces, etc.

I'd 3-bet preflop before I'd raise the flop. That said, I think flatting preflop is probably good given that the blinds are probably poorer players than opener.

So flat and flat.

I'd flat this and see a turn.

having the nine changes your equity quite a bit against the few hands that have you dominated, and makes me lean towards a push.

depending on the blinds i probably prefer 3betting pre, even if to just 350 or 400

i would call flop against empire2000

flatting the flop with position seems to me as the best play...

Not closing the action I'd flat too... We have a good hand which could be crushed already.

In position I flat. Out of position I would probably just pot flop and get it in though I think it would only show a very small profit.

Even if he's on the tigher side, I imagine his CO opening range in PLO is wide enough where adding in hands like this to your 3bet range is going to make it a bitch to play on your left. Still though, the flat preflop is fine obv.

As played, I'd raise the flop. It should be pretty rare that he has us crushed. It's hard for him to have a set a lot here with the 4/2 on the flop and us blocking the 9. As long as he doesn't have the overpair and a better flush draw we're happy with a c/r. Even if he does (which will still show up) we/re winning 20% of the time anyway.

We also might be able to get him to fold some better flush draws incorrectly. Having a random AcKc** gives us the same equity if we're up against top set. If we can get him to fold some NFD's and some King high flush draws...or even slow down and call and allow us to bet blank turn cards then that will add some value to balance out the times we get it in bad.

I guess in short, we rarely get it in bad here. And even when we do, we'll win 1 out of 5 times. This is a good spot where we actually will have some fold equity against better hands or hands that should call after cbetting that I think its worth the raise.

What are the stack sizes for everyone?

5K

100bb

Most people seem to agree on a call which seems good to me (with some leaning towards a push). If we we're shorter stacked would you lean further to a push?

And if so, at what stack size level would this tip the balance between calling and shoving?

Wow, I'm surprised to see all the votes for calling here. To me, this seems like a textbook "we have a decent made hand and a decent draw, but we don't know what cards we want, so we raise" spot.

This is a good point. It also makes you a small favorite rather than a small underdog against stuff like AA + gutshot.

Given that dry a board, if we re-raise I guess he puts us on either a set, or the nut flush draw with something else like an overpair or top pair. If he, or the blinds, hold the Ace of clubs, does re-raising heavily weight our range to top set in their mind, and therefore force him to fold nearly everything including many better hands than ours ....except maybe AA with clubs which is 35/65 vs the set he expects us to have??

Plus he's only put about 12% of his stack in so far (600/5000) so should he even call with AA and the nut flush draw if he strongly thinks we have a set and he has 35% equity vs that??

He is snapgetting it in with aa+ nutflushdraw.

yeah i think i flat here in position like 100%

if we're raising here we're basically turning a strong hand into a bluff, as he's very rarely shoving worse

I'd raise this against the vast majority of players, but it kinda scares me against empire because he pretty much never C-bets. He might bet/fold naked AA/KK, but he never C-bets air, and I'm honestly not 100% sure that he C-bets a naked overpair either. I'd flat in position and not feel good about very many turns if he leads again.

me 2.

I get it in. I honestly wonder about this situation though.

ya, especially versus empire, at least the bit i've played with him and my impression from talking to other people

mmmm best post yet