Straddle 80

Co limps (18k) - fish
Hero limp but with AsKxJx3s (13k)
Sb limp (40k) - oldschool winning reg
Bb limp (2k)- fish
Straddler 40 call
Straddler 80 raise 640
6 players to flop (~3850)
T62ssc
Sb pot
Bb call his all in
Fold to co who calls
Hero?

I have very nittet image and i do not expect to have any FE against sb

You're basically getting direct odds to bink the turn. You'll probably also get the odds to call an all in on the turn if board doesn't pair.

Yes im not folding. But call og shove ?

Why would you shove? You say sb isn’t folding, so you’re never ahead, and there isn’t any benefit in folding anyone else out because you still need to bink. Call, and fold if the turn pairs the board

Reasons to shove:
*you think you have more than 33% equity versus SB + CO and you want to get the money in now.
*Your EV is higher if CO folds (especially with the his dead money)

Yes but neither of these are true here. Hard to imagine we have 33% equity 3-way here. I assume we need a flush (or bd straight) and for the board to not pair. Our EV is almost certainty higher w CO coming along. It’s not like he can have a better draw. It’s hard to imagine H winning this hand without a spade coming so may as well maximize when that happens.

Much better to shove with a hand like 9s8s76. With that hand we want to fold out CO’s bigger flush draws so shoving would make more sense, esp because we have more equity v a set.

I would shove to gii against SB and CO and have a +EV spot if both have set or both have draw.

And in worst case one have set and the other one has blocking spades but then I still have around 25%

It is also possible that I by shoving get all in against SB's draw (789Jss) and get CO to fold a made hand.

And by shoving there is no risk I will make a bad decision on later streets.(make a wrong fold on the turn or fold the best hand on the river)

J987ss is one of the only hand SB could have you're ahead of. The lack of any pair is really hurting you from an equity perspective. You're behind other draws, like T987 or 9876. You're certainly behind his range, which is why I don't like inflating the side pot.

If SB is thinking (I don't know if he is) he should see that BB has like 1350 left in a 4k pot, and should realize that his pot shove has little to no chance of taking down the pot. His donking pot first to act in a huge multi-way pot is also super strong. He should be heavily weighted to value hands here,

I also don't think later streets are that difficult. On turn, if board pairs then fold to a shove. If board doesn't pair, call a shove. If you hit your flush, gii. If turn checks through, on river just gii when you have the flush. The only difficult cards here are board-pairing spades.

IMO, flatting the best option because (i) you have no fold equity, (ii) you get the ability to fold when turn pairs board, (iii) you could see a free river and be able to fold when you brick and (iv) you keep CO in to juice up your return when you bink.

Problem with shoving is SB who is pegged as a winner covers stacks. And his range is super strong. You can’t fall back on winning a side pot vs Co here. I think you are behind and need to hit. You have 8 clean outs assuming no one has blockers ( which is very optimistic) and 1 out to make your BD Broadway. You’re getting 4:1 to call. I call here


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Okay. Maybe the shove is a little too optimistic.
But anyway, I shoved
Sb shove
Co fold
I get lucky against TTQ3 (no spades)

We didn't get any reads on CO other than "fish" but he has called a big flop bet from a tight player.

So a reason to shove may be:
* Your EV is higher if CO calls.

If we represent a made hand by rejamming, a bad player may call all his flushdraws "knowing" he's against a couple made hands and dreaming of a huge payoff.

I recently played a pot like this where it was painfully obvious myself and another winning player almost 100% had top set and nut flushdraw (raised pot, disconnected board like Q72, money piling in). The nut flushdraw correctly rejammed getting a king high flushdraw to commit.

Note also that nut flushdraw can correctly rejam vs fish's undersets as well... gotta hit vs one set, might as well hit vs two.

I don’t play 20-40-80 but as a winning 2-4 reg I think this is a call and nothing else.

Raise pre, as played call flop, anything else is pretty bad, especially in position.

i mean dont really get why everyone saying shoving is terrible... if you call i imagine everyone is calling all non paired turns with stack sizes so you got to really believe you have zero fold equity for calling to be better... its very rare to have actually zero fold equity. Seems pretty trivial anyways...

preflop is just bad IMO tho not only do i not limp this hand vs a fish co limp but bb should be rejamming when it gets back to him like 100% so this hand pre is just bizarre and you put yourself in terrible spots with both decisions.

Call.

About the only reason to shove over calling is to maybe clean up your outs so a J K or A can win the hand for you where if it stayed 4 ways it wouldn't do so, and also the chance to go with the hand on flop with guaranteed good eq rather than face a questionable bet on the the turn. But if you have no fold equity against sb as you say call has to be better.