1. Friday night playing 1/2 PLO with a $5 bring in at a big Vegas poker room.

10 minutes after I sit. I have 500 (max buy in).

Limp UTG with KK95 1 suit. UTG +1 makes it 20 I think.

Like 3 callers. I repot to 185 (sorry if numbers aren't fully accurate with UTG +1 raise but I did repot to 185).

UTG +1 (a tourist who seems to be in his early 50s with a 800 stack) insta shoves. Everyone folds.

I?

2. Sunday night playing 1/2 PLO with a $5 bring in at a big Vegas poker room.

1 hour after I sit. I have 560.

UTG limps. UTG +1 raises to 20.

I (UTG +2) call with Ac9c9s8d. UTG +3 (clearly a reg, with a 500 stack, but has lost the last 10 minutes) calls.

UTG +4 raises to 85. Blinds fold.

UTG +1 folds. I call.

UTG +3 pots to something like 310.

UTG + 4 folds.

I ?

I fold in both spots.

In hand 1, I do not 3bet unless I'm sure I'll go all-in, which I don't want to do pre, so just flat the raise and see a flop.

easy call hand 1

hand 2 fold to a raise, fold to a 3-bet, fold to a 4-bet

I guess once you put in $185 pre in hand 1, you maybe should call, but I hate the 3bet. One-suited KK with unconnected cards under 10 are not my type of 3betting hands.

Results:

Hand 1: tank called. Villain had AAxx. Was planning to instacall but when an old guy insta shoves, that makes ke think despite pot odds he prob has it.

Hand 2: debated between folding and calling and shoving. Felt that villain was tilting a little. Shoved.

He called.

I showed my hand but he didn't show his.

Ran it twice.

On board 1 flop was K93 rainbow and he said he was drawing dead.

On board 2 flop was QJT rainbow and he also said he was drawing dead.

Villain mucked

hand 1 the pot lays you direct odds vs AA

anyways, if you play 4 cards for fun don't ever fold in close spots

nh

I fold both times as well, but hand 1 looks close to break-even since you will have about 30% equity vs aaxx

1. is AAxx 99.9% time

2. fold for me, 99 is over setted , u basically playing to make flush

I agree with the other posters, hand 1 is pretty much always AA. Sucks to put in 180 and then have to fold but it is a very clear fold whatever way you look at it. Even ds very well connected KK doesn't fair very well against a range of all AAxx. I don't think the EP limp in a full ring game is bad at all, but limp potting it isn't a great way to go about the hand, PF raising ranges are abnormally tight even for full ring considering there is so much limping so you'll just be GII against AAxx and barely pushing any equity against the other very strong hands the average player might be opening here so limp/ calling is much better, try to flop a set or OP+FD in a mw pot.

Hand 2 doesn't play well against anything. It's fine I guess to see a flop with a medium pair & nut suit but wouldn't consider putting all of the money in with this hand or calling any big 3/4bets with, even if we were obscenely deep. Hand just doesn't play well or flop a smooth enough distribution of equity, bit too hot or cold if you will.

hand one is as BE as it comes. 732 in the middle and have to call 315, we need 30.1% equity versus his range. versus any AA range, KK95s has 30.8% equity. Meaning, if he doesn't have AA literally 100% of the time you are lighting money on fire and when he does have AA 100% of the time, we still make money(on the call). I also assumed by one suite, you mean one flush combination and I ran numbers as so. I also labeled your flush draw King high, if it is only 9 high FD, you are going to have slightly less equity.

hand one: call
Regis Philbin: "is that your final answer?" yes
Answer: correct!



hand 2 obv infinite variables at hand that we aren't aware of. your hand looks kind of cool but isn't great. I think good/the better players could probably show small profitability by flatting but it is definitely going to be a high variant flat. I really can't see flatting being that bad or even bad at all, well the original flat, but then that repop FML. That's where you have to have Pokerjuice and run some sims I guess. but let's tackle it a bit. I stated the first flat seems okay, very thin line here though, has to be, and you should be a proven winner to be calling here. first, we have to check direct PO. there is 508 in the middle when it gets back to you and you have to call 225 to see a flop and close the action, ugh, call, don't even have to run any sims, has to be a call at this point lmao , has to be. What are we ranging our opponent on? as played it definitely seems like it has some bluffs but this could also be AA a vast majority of the time, I mean readless, I would range him pretty strongly. He seems to end up showing up with some BS, which is fine, makes it even easier and more obvious of a call pre, or perhaps shove because folding on the flop is going to be so hard, especially if he has some air in his pf range. without running numbers though, I like a flat and play, unless, of course, he is clearly tilted and spewing, then u just shove them in probably. At that point, if he is hard spewing, we are then considering flatting only in hopes that he is a huge bafoon and unjustly surrenders too much equity on flops by folding when he should not.

Back to the odds. We have 2.26 direct pot odds preflop to play and see 3, that can't be disputed. I originally thought he covered but u cover him, he has 500 so only 190 left. If u flat we are playing a pot versus villain at 1:4 or 26% to be precise. you are OOP but it is pretty irrelevant after flatting and then playing a pot at said SPR(stack-to-pot ratio).

well, if villain only has AAxx combos our hand has 36.74% equity. we are basically going to the river no matter what so all of our equity will be realized. I mean, after the original call, you just have to call here, like even if he has no bluffs lmao. on the first call, direct pot odds say we only need 30.7% equity, we have 36.74% if we straight up run the board. The 190 back does have some relevance, we can't just write it off and look at the direct pot odds, there is poker to play yet. But it seems pretty minuscule at this point. When he starts showing up with bluffs we are lighting money on fire by folding pre. When he is nutted, the line probably runs thin but I think it's in our favor . I did not tackle the SPR and the flop+turn+river part of the equation but in PLO, it's hard to fold

you don't really have to be a proven winner at all to call here, pot odds tell us to play. come postflop there isn't going to be a lot of pokering going on, it's going to be GII and run out the turn and river in most scenarios. There is some however, and that I wish I could tackle more in depth but that get's very time consuming and thought provoking . Like always, if you are good and can still play this postflop at a high level, you really start to make it a +EV play

hand 2: call or shove(villain dependant)
Regis: "is that your final answer?"
: "yes"
Regis: "OP should go pro"

Wow, great analysis.

Funny how people are giving different responses on fold vs call for both hands

Hand 1 fold
Hand 2 gii. Villain does not have a range advantage here with the way preflop played out


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thats a nice pot in hand 1

i would really encourage you to watch some coaching videos on constructing ranges pre flop. you have to play tighter, A998 should be an auto fold here.

studying pre flop ranges is one of the easiest, and highest return investments of 'study time.' when we play the right ranges our entire game improves.

I will play u both HU for rollz right now

auto fold, he said auto fold = automatically fold. did u even consider the variables or are you going to listen to your instructor? why are we auto folding? I just laid out the maths bro and it said to at least call. even if he has 8% of the top hands we have 43% equity. I dare u to tell me why we are supposed to fold here.

im saying i dont think he should VPIP

but like you said, there are a million other variables in the hand that we cant see on the internet, and i try to never speak in absolutes about poker

IMO this is not a hand we want to VPIP UTG+1 in a live game where all the pots are multiway, and im certain that a solver sim would confirm this...and im sure you would agree too, because i think were talking about two different decisions

i think we have to vpip here. 27 out there with 20 to flat 2.7 to 2 almost 1.5 to 1 so we need about 42-44%, that does probably run very thin for sure. edge ----You

I'm just looking at this and it had to be marginal in a tough game. in a soft game, I think its an easy call. i have been playing a lot of plo/NLO(me NLO) lately, people behind us are going to flat here with ranges in the 40-70% range(in my games, if i am thinking conservatively I am thinking i am getting at least a call in the 25% range and 35% range behind, at least!, am I wrong?)....means we gotta play.

we'll talk later

This entire thread/initial post is terrible

Once you make the terrible chicken **** limp pot play in hand one you have to call bc of third grade math.
Yes he has AA 99 % of the time but your stack size is break even for the call.It's completely trivial and should never have been asked if you should call once you get to this point.

Why you make such a horrendous play to begin with is beyond me.


Hand 2-im probably raising myself pre and never folding for 20 preflop.
Against the standard 1/2 Vegas plo players it's a fold for 85 and definitely a fold for the all in.

However I doubt the op can play this hand profitability preflop in his position
Not trying to be a dickhead,but based on how he played hand one,and the fact he has to ask if it's a call AFTER he makes his awful play when it's beyond a standard call,he can't play well enough postflop to play this hand

okay by me to just limp call with the kings UTG. I sure wouldn't re-raise them. Some good profit in Omaha from playing set over set acting like you don't have top set to the turn then move if a favorable card. And many people go easy with aces until they really get the chance to bust it open, which you give by raising and they've got you where they want you. But say you limp call and flop K-J-4. Take it easy, let them bet and just call. Turn is off 2-3-5-6-7-8, trip jacks or fours has it in their head they are good. They bet pot. Sometimes one out. Don't wake them up till they are committed. Small ball till turn if a lot of outs against you. If turn is bad, flush or straight, you havne't committed much.

If it's break-even for the call, then you don't have to call. If it's neutral EV, then you don't have to hop aboard the variance train.

You're playing low stakes 100bb (often less) plo not deep stacks plo vs good thinking players
You're stacking jj and usually 44 anyway
By waiting for a safe turn you're usually just killing your action when a scare card hits
There may be reasons to slowplay but stacking mid set Inna short stacked game isn't one of them

It's break even if you see his specific hand
Throw in the small chances of run downs etc you babe to call
He really asked the wrong question in this hand