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High Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 2/4 and above pot-limit Omaha poker

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Old 09-13-2020, 07:12 AM   #1
MartinK1979
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2.5/5 2nd Nuts on flop,turn and river. Facing c/r shove

Villian is a regular
[converted_hand][hand_history]PartyGaming - $5 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 3 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

Hero (BTN): $510.50 (102.1 bb)
SB: $811.69 (162.3 bb)
BB: $840.29 (168.1 bb)

SB posts $2.50, BB posts $5.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $7.50) Hero has 8 K 7 6
Hero raises to $17.50, fold, BB calls $12.50

Flop: ($37.50, 2 players) 8 2 6
BB checks, Hero bets $26.72, BB calls $26.72

Turn: ($90.94, 2 players) 5
BB checks, Hero bets $52.50, BB calls $52.50

River: ($195.94, 2 players) 4
BB checks, Hero bets $70.00, BB raises to $403.94

Hero?
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Old 09-13-2020, 12:51 PM   #2
PokerPlayingGamble
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Re: 2.5/5 2nd Nuts on flop,turn and river. Facing c/r shove

nobody is sick enough to c/c two streets and c/r the river with the dry ace imo. especially having top two I feel we can take this hand a bit slower, a smaller sizing on the flop for sure, possibly checking a street also.
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Old 09-13-2020, 02:05 PM   #3
CheckCheckFold
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Re: 2.5/5 2nd Nuts on flop,turn and river. Facing c/r shove

do you bet the same amount on river when u have nut flush? if you don't then savvy players that misses draws can easily do this play WITHOUT them having the A blocker.
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Old 09-13-2020, 07:51 PM   #4
Joe-exotic69
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Re: 2.5/5 2nd Nuts on flop,turn and river. Facing c/r shove

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheckCheckFold View Post
do you bet the same amount on river when u have nut flush? if you don't then savvy players that misses draws can easily do this play WITHOUT them having the A blocker.
What draws? He blocks top and middle set on the flop.
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Old 09-14-2020, 11:43 AM   #5
monikrazy
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Re: 2.5/5 2nd Nuts on flop,turn and river. Facing c/r shove

Tough spot, i think you should reevaluate your lines starting flop and turn. Sizing down on river is not consistent with nut flush given your flop and turn line, so you are inviting villain to shove wide.
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Old 09-14-2020, 04:03 PM   #6
Stryd0r
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Re: 2.5/5 2nd Nuts on flop,turn and river. Facing c/r shove

I think you should consider checking back turn to not fold out too many worse hands versus a regular while also not getting owned by a nuts check-calling line or any dry ace lines, unless we have a history of being called down 3 streets with weak flushes or we ourselves are barrelling a lot.

I do not agree nobody is sick enough to do this with a dry ace. Lots are willing to.
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Old 09-14-2020, 08:17 PM   #7
PokerPlayingGamble
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Re: 2.5/5 2nd Nuts on flop,turn and river. Facing c/r shove

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I do not agree nobody is sick enough to do this with a dry ace.
They are going to call two streets with no equity just to bluff check raise the river? What if hero checks back?
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Old 09-15-2020, 01:40 AM   #8
Stryd0r
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Re: 2.5/5 2nd Nuts on flop,turn and river. Facing c/r shove

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Originally Posted by PokerPlayingGamble View Post
They are going to call two streets with no equity just to bluff check raise the river? What if hero checks back?
they won't always have no equity, it's possible they have perceived showdown value (which can be one pair) and don't mind a check back versus an air double barrel but once opponent bets this size river they are compelled to ship.

yes our pair and set blockers make that less likely but villain is a regular and if he is a thinking regular, doing this with the nuts (or at all) means that he believes hero is betting three streets enough to make this a good nuts line and therefore he has to do with dry ace (or pure air) sometimes

I'm not saying villain will always take this line with a dry ace but I've seen it commonly enough to believe that lots are looking to stay in the pot for ways to win the pot, and they don't necessarily always favour the simple c/r flop and polarise and barrel, nor do they like c/r-ing turn because they stopped doing that with the nuts

and yes some people do look like a dumbass when you take a bet/bet/check line for thin value but I've seen it rolled over

another point is that this thread exists and I have folded the 2nd nuts in similar spots meaning that sometimes we literally fold 100% of our range in this spot when opponent has either a dry ace or nut flush which is why taking this line with dry ace is somewhat compelling as it is that powerful

Last edited by Stryd0r; 09-15-2020 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 09-16-2020, 11:22 AM   #9
Z06Fanatic1
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Re: 2.5/5 2nd Nuts on flop,turn and river. Facing c/r shove

Well a couple points - are you expecting him to turn 2 pair into a bluff here? I don't think he's bluffing a straight so the only other hand that gets to the river is 2 pr. Your sizing specifically on the river isn't good - I think because of your sizing he might put you on a weak flush/straight and have a slightly higher bluff %. If you sized larger I would fold pretty quickly.
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