2/4, 250bb deep, good hand faces c/r on the flop in a 3bet pot - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

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2/4, 250bb deep, good hand faces c/r on the flop in a 3bet pot

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07-30-2009 , 11:18 PM

antchev

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,768

Villain is <xlllll>, 36/21/2.5 w/ 4.5 3bet% in 1K hands, plays a lot higher usually, don't know why he's playing 2/4 atm, so I expect him to be overly aggro. I'm lost at this spot with stacks this deep. Fold seems kinda weak, call leaves us w/ a harder decision later cause I expect him to shove every turn, shove seems like the simplest decision, but are we really ahead of something?

Poker Stars $2/$4 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $400.00
UTG: $1807.15
MP: $488.20
CO: $985.20
Hero (BTN): $1254.80
SB: $211.60

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is BTN with 3

2 folds, CO raises to $14, Hero raises to $48, 2 folds, CO calls $34

Flop: ($102.00) 4

(2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $99, CO raises to $396, Hero ?

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07-30-2009 , 11:37 PM

Parlay Slow

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Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 8,122

I would expect him to hold the ace of hearts and another heart and two other cards most of the time.

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07-30-2009 , 11:41 PM

Scary_Tiger

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Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 21,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parlay Slow

I would expect him to hold the ace of hearts and another heart and two other cards most of the time.

Yeah he has higher hearts a ton, I think you should let your second pair plus gutshot go.

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07-31-2009 , 12:27 AM

cmyr

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,048

plus double gutshot.

It's hard, but I think we do need to pass. I also don't love pre this deep, we want to be playing hands with nut potential?

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07-31-2009 , 12:30 AM

blumpkin

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,756

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmyr

I also don't love pre this deep, we want to be playing hands with nut potential?

+1

this hand is a much better 3betting hand when we are not as deep

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07-31-2009 , 04:54 AM

Roy

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Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,447

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmyr

plus double gutshot.

Uhh nope.

I was like "hey that's a nice hand, pair + FD + wrap", then I was like "hmm.. no wrap, just a double gutty", and then I was like "uhh.. ok so make that just a single gutshot.. hey.. this hand stinks".

Fold.

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07-31-2009 , 07:25 AM

Tomtah

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,642

I play lower than you but this seems like a very easy fold.

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07-31-2009 , 09:07 AM

Matthew Sanford

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 77

2/4 is my normal level and this seems like a super-insta-auto-muck to me.

OP my real question is were you just c-betting with flop bet or are you trying to play this hand for value? I'm not trying to be a dik but from everything I see you have a terrible hand and I don't see how this is ever a shove unless you have a great read that villain is bluffing, in which case your 4 cards don't even matter.

Let me know if I'm crazy.

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07-31-2009 , 09:11 AM

sharpmouth58

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Sanford

If you have a read on villain that hes bluffing your cards def still matter because you could be wrong and still have ok equity

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07-31-2009 , 09:41 AM

#10

Matthew Sanford

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharpmouth58

If you have a read on villain that hes bluffing your cards def still matter because you could be wrong and still have ok equity

I was just making a point and didn't literally mean that they don't matter, but I think your point is an important distinction between PLO and NLH and it is well taken.

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07-31-2009 , 10:15 AM

#11

CZI

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,351

This is exactly why you shouldn't 3bet this hand this deep. You flopped the world and you can't really expect to continue profitably. If you're 100BB deep I play it the same, bet/calling flop. Here I don't get why you potted flop. I bet 72 and go from there.

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07-31-2009 , 10:39 AM

#12

jamiezig

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 605

by description, seems like the wrong player to be 3betting ds rags against this deep.

as played, i check behind flop.

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07-31-2009 , 10:46 AM

#13

Peligro!

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,578

Isn't this a if we're not planning on bet/shoving, we should check back flop spot?

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07-31-2009 , 10:54 AM

#14

ActionFreak

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,286

It would be major spew to get it in this deep

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07-31-2009 , 11:58 AM

#15

antchev

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,768

Quote:

Originally Posted by CZI

Spot on. First, I thought I got the double gut shot, second, I didn't realize we were both so deep because villain was sitting at the table for 10 hands, third, 16 tables is way too much for me to be able to take the best lines vs tricky players in situations like this, I'll definitely cut it down to 12 at most. When I look at it now 100bb deep this is an easy shove, 250bb is a clear fold. I ended up shoving cause I was stuck and wanted to gamble it up, he had AJ74ds, no hearts, and held.

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07-31-2009 , 02:48 PM

#16

CZI

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Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,351

AJ74 no hearts? Wow, he's horrible. That's the absolute best hand you can expect to be up against. And still you're only about 50/50 (I didn't do calcs, just a rough estimate). This makes it clear that you can't really ever bet/call or bet/shove comfortably 250BB deep. I guess checking it back is the way to go here, but in the heat of the moment that wouldn't cross my mind and I'd definately bet cause I'd feel as if I flopped the nuts.

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07-31-2009 , 03:33 PM

#17

iggymcfly

runs good at HORSE

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 26,042

Quote:

Originally Posted by CZI

Calling the 3-bet's probably bad with that hand, but I think the flop C/R is fine if hero's C-betting a decent amount. Top two's pretty much the nuts in a 3-bet pot on that board. I mean, do you really think sets are a significant part of hero's range?

Also, agreed that the 3-bet preflop is bad. This is the kind of hand you iso a fish with when you've got stacks that are short enough for the hand to play reasonably well. You don't want to be playing it against a reg 250bb deep.

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07-31-2009 , 05:44 PM

#18

homerjaysimpson

adept

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,128

Quote:

Originally Posted by CZI

this!

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07-31-2009 , 07:59 PM

#19

CZI

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,351

Quote:

Originally Posted by iggymcfly

I didn't mean to say villain played it bad once he got to the flop - I'd C/R it as well if I were villain, clearly the best line. But calling 3bets OOP with AJ74ds when 250BB deep isn't really a smart thing to do imo. It's basically double suited trash, with the suited ace as a little extra. He's gonna make so much mistakes with that hand postflop. Which will be magnified due to being deep.

In conclusion, pretty marginal/bad play by both hero and villain.

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08-01-2009 , 06:52 PM

#20

thegr8str8

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 551

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy

FOLD...not only is it somewhat likely that any pair of flush draw is no good. You may be praying to hit a 3 outter here....stack are way too deep. Even though you hit your "hand" fairly hard, it's an easy fold.

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08-02-2009 , 12:49 AM

#21

SToll

banned

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,088

I cant imagine in this scenario ever hitting the bet button. this seems like a trivially easy check on the flop.

but you bet and its like a good spot to c/r w/alot of stuff. so id just say flife and shove because they just never have it

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08-02-2009 , 01:53 AM

#22

Praetor

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Yeah, I like a flop check

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08-02-2009 , 08:15 AM

#23

wazz

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We're not even in great shape against hands that are check-calling here, betting only serves to protect one pair when ahead, and is otherwise turning our hand into a bluff. Easy check.

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08-03-2009 , 01:47 AM

#24

readnweep

self-banned

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 213

for those against 3 betting preflop because its rarely flopping a board where we feel comfortable putting in 250bbs, what hands are we 3-betting this deep? shouldnt our value 3 betting range increase in position as stack sizes increase?

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08-03-2009 , 03:16 AM

#25

grizy

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 20,573

Certain peculiarities about fishie's game makes this an easy shove for me.

No, I am neither levelling nor joking. I'd shove here 100% of the time if I made the first bet.

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