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1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise 1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise

08-28-2017 , 10:42 AM
Playing in a very good 1-3-6 PLO game with a mandatory button straddle where action starts with the small blind. Normal one raise Pre-Flop and 5-6 callers. Max Buy of $1,000.

Hero has about $1,500, Villain has approx $1,200. Villain is probably the best player at the table, someone I believe to be a pro and have played with multiple times. Hero is a young white male, has played in this game 3 or 4 times and is known to be from out of town and is here on business. Have had good results in the game including one session as a $5k + winner in the previous months.

SB Calls 6, BB calls 6, UTG+1 folds, Hero UTG+2 pots to $30 with 9875, 3 callers behind me including main villain in the High jack + both blinds call.

6 ways to flop, (Pot: $180): 962
SB + BB check
Hero ($1,470): bet's $75
Folds to Villain in HJ
Villian ($1,170): Raises to $255
Folds to Hero.

What Should Hero do in this spot? Call and evaluate, or ReRaise/Pot and get it all in?
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-28-2017 , 12:19 PM
Are suits an issue? I want to gii, but not sure the best way to do that. With the way my PLO games play, I just re-raise/gii now, especially with two other players in the hand.
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-28-2017 , 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
Are suits an issue? I want to gii, but not sure the best way to do that. With the way my PLO games play, I just re-raise/gii now, especially with two other players in the hand.
Sorry, meant to say flop is rainbow with one backdoor flush draw for hero. Also, by the time action gets back to hero, we are heads up, there are no other players left in the hand.
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-28-2017 , 03:41 PM
Yes, sorry, thought SB and BB were still in.

Just re-read V's description. Seems as if he will fold w/o a set or big wrap if you re-pot. With your little flop bet, he might put you on AA or similar and be trying to bluff you off of it. Tricky spot. Tempting to just call and keep his bluffs in, but in game I probably just re-pop it and go from there.
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-28-2017 , 04:08 PM
That was my thought too, that he could have a set/wrap to the 10 or be bluffing. I chose to call out of position and re evaluate what comes on the turn.

Turn ($690): 9625
Hero ($1,215): Check
Villian ($915): Bets $475
Hero: With the nut Straight and and 4 outs to a Full house, Hero Re-Pots All-In
Villain: Snap Calls

Hero: 9875
Villain: AK87 Turned nuts with no redraw

Before hands are exposed we agree to run it twice, Chop first board and Hero hits 9 to take the 2nd board outright.

I was surprised to see how light he 3-bet me (no pair, open ended, backdoor flush). He was also pretty surprised to see how hard I hit the flop as he put me on bigger cards/pairs.

What do you think of his line on the flop?

Last edited by jtm1208; 08-28-2017 at 04:37 PM.
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-28-2017 , 04:29 PM
I actually like his flop line vs. an EP raiser, especially with your flop bet size. He has blockers to your wrap, and most EP raisers do have big cards. I'm sure he had no idea you were so strong. Wonder what he would have done had you re-potted flop?

You should wait a day before giving results, though, so other people have time to reply.
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-28-2017 , 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
I actually like his flop line vs. an EP raiser, especially with your flop bet size. He has blockers to your wrap, and most EP raisers do have big cards. I'm sure he had no idea you were so strong. Wonder what he would have done had you re-potted flop?

You should wait a day before giving results, though, so other people have time to reply.
I just tried to add the spoiler option, not really sure if I used it properly or not.
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-28-2017 , 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
I actually like his flop line vs. an EP raiser, especially with your flop bet size. He has blockers to your wrap, and most EP raisers do have big cards. I'm sure he had no idea you were so strong. Wonder what he would have done had you re-potted flop?

You should wait a day before giving results, though, so other people have time to reply.
no way a good player takes that flop line.
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-28-2017 , 05:30 PM
Why not? If you put your villain (young, out-of-town business trip player) on big cards, which is what they usually have from EP, villain bets small, and you have 78, it's a pretty good play. Pre-fop raiser cannot continue with much unless they are really terrible (or have our Hero's hand).

I question pre-flop, though.
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-28-2017 , 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
Why not? If you put your villain (young, out-of-town business trip player) on big cards, which is what they usually have from EP, villain bets small, and you have 78, it's a pretty good play. Pre-fop raiser cannot continue with much unless they are really terrible (or have our Hero's hand).

I question pre-flop, though.
preflop is very bad as well
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-28-2017 , 05:55 PM
Yes, but why is flop bad?
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-28-2017 , 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
Yes, but why is flop bad?
no strat in HSPLO
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-28-2017 , 06:00 PM
Posting Rules
I. Be respectful to other posters.

II. Give good advice. Give reasons. Explain yourself. Explain why you think the way you do.

III. Don't post hands in the LC thread.'

If you can't even follow the sticky, don't bother posting.
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-28-2017 , 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
Posting Rules
I. Be respectful to other posters.

II. Give good advice. Give reasons. Explain yourself. Explain why you think the way you do.

III. Don't post hands in the LC thread.
HSPLO rules

Spoiler:
no strat
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-28-2017 , 06:04 PM
Then PM it to me. (And please don't bother posting "advice" you can't/won't back up.)
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-28-2017 , 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
Yes, but why is flop bad?
V has an open ender on the flop and is using it as a bluff. That is a poor hand to use as a bluff. The decent players I know are using powerhouse draws (13+ outs or nut flush draw+ pair/a few backdoor draws) as bluffs.
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-28-2017 , 08:24 PM
Powerhouse draws are not bluffs. They might be semi-bluffs, but 13+ outs in PLO on the flop is pretty strong. Raising that as a bluff is not a bluff. I'm saying this play with this hand is good as a bluff and to get your "average" (sorry, OP, have no idea if you are average, awesome, or terrible) PLO player to fold AAXXds, etc.

I'm not saying it's a good play for V's hand; I'm saying it's a good play in this situation (pre-flop pot, etc.) with V's hand (78 blockers) vs. Hero's perceived range.

Pre on V's part sucks.

Last edited by Javanewt; 08-28-2017 at 08:31 PM.
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-29-2017 , 09:53 AM
From Villain's perspective, I really like his Raise on the flop. I remember thinking he could have the wrap to the 10 and could really have me in trouble. That's even with the strong hand that I had. If I had AA, KK, QQ I probably just let it go right then and there.

I agree his hand is semi marginal at best Pre-Flop, but I do give him credit for being good enough to play this marginal hand well enough that he would not get himself in too much trouble normally. His read was from early position I almost always have big cards, and he said as much during the 2 river run outs. Especially in this game where only 1 or 2 players were playing a good Pre-Flop range (my pre-flop range was probably a little bit too loose, but I felt my post-flop skills were 2nd or 3rd at the table and I could avoid some post-flop traps with hands that others would get in trouble with.
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-29-2017 , 09:57 AM
Now would probably also be a good time to point out that I fired a turn and river bluff into quad Ace's earlier in the night, so the table did see that I am capable of bluffing haha.
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
08-29-2017 , 11:21 AM
I still wonder what would have happened had you re-raised him on the flop, but we'll never know. I also really question his pre-flop decision to call you with that hand, especially if he put you on bigger cards, but in general too. Pretty bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtm1208
Now would probably also be a good time to point out that I fired a turn and river bluff into quad Ace's earlier in the night, so the table did see that I am capable of bluffing haha.
Oops!
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote
09-01-2017 , 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtm1208
Playing in a very good 1-3-6 PLO game with a mandatory button straddle where action starts with the small blind. Normal one raise Pre-Flop and 5-6 callers. Max Buy of $1,000.

Hero has about $1,500, Villain has approx $1,200. Villain is probably the best player at the table, someone I believe to be a pro and have played with multiple times. Hero is a young white male, has played in this game 3 or 4 times and is known to be from out of town and is here on business. Have had good results in the game including one session as a $5k + winner in the previous months.

SB Calls 6, BB calls 6, UTG+1 folds, Hero UTG+2 pots to $30 with 9875, 3 callers behind me including main villain in the High jack + both blinds call.

6 ways to flop, (Pot: $180): 962
SB + BB check
Hero ($1,470): bet's $75
Folds to Villain in HJ
Villian ($1,170): Raises to $255
Folds to Hero.

What Should Hero do in this spot? Call and evaluate, or ReRaise/Pot and get it all in?
A few things before we get to the question.
1. I may just call pre and not inflate the pot for just this reason. That said a raise is fine
2. As played pre I would either pot the flop or check behind. You need to think about what range of hands you'd bet 75 with here and what you'll do to a raise. Generally less than 80-85% of pot will open the door to been raised or floated very light
3. As played - do you think you're ahead with top pair and an open end straight draw? What is the range of hands he will raise with? What is your equity vs that range? Not knowing this stuff I would just call and assess the turn. If he's bluffing he may shut down, you may improve and get him to stack off light in a much lower variance spot. Don't be afraid to play through streets. As a general rule I won't get it all in with just one draw with an SPR greater than 3 unless it's the nut flush draw
1-3-6 PLO Live (mandatory Button Straddle) - Interesting Flop Raise Quote

      
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