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Old 08-31-2020, 12:52 PM   #1
TomCollins
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Spade 1/3/6 Livestream Hands

I played on a live stream and am looking for some advise on how I could improve.

For reference on players:

1 Seat - PLO Specialist Pro
2 Seat - Me (mostly online Omaha player, some live Omaha experience, but not a lot)
4 Seat - Regular Rec Player
5 Seat - Regular Rec Player
6 Seat - Mostly NL HE Tourney player, solid NLHE player, known as "The Nit"
7 Seat - Hyper Aggro Action Rec Player (had 94% VPIP in a previous session)
9 Seat - Aggro Frequent Rec Player
10 Seat - Aggro Player who is at the cardroom a lot, plays bigger games there.

Game is $1/3/6 (mandatory $6 straddle).

Players cover me unless noted.

Part 1 is 8-handed, Part 2 will be the short handed hands.

Hand 1

8 Handed.
4: SB $1
5 ~212: BB $3
6 ~$300: Straddle $6
7: Raise to $25 (he does this any time he is in, which is almost always)
9: Raise to $75
10: Folds
1: Calls $75
2 ~$450: Hero Calls JT99

I have been very tight up to this point, with the action I figure my lower connected cards are live and can get a good pot if I get a great flop, and I'm on the button.

4: Calls $74
5: Shoves $209 more
6: Shoves $300
7: Shoves $800
9: Calls $660
1: Calls $500
2: Calls $379
4: Folds

I probably should have folded preflop on this one. I think after I call the $75 it's too much in to fold.

Results:

Spoiler:


Hand 2

7: $1 SB
9: $3 BB
10: $6 Straddle
1: Folds
2: Hero ~$435: Calls $6 QQT3

Not an ideal hand, but I expect one of the later players to pop it to $30 and can see a flop for about $30. Hate the dangler. I will double or triple up if i hit a set given this action.

4: Calls $6
5: Raise to $30
6: Call $30
7: Calls $29
9: Folds
10: Calls $24
Hero: Calls $24
4: Calls $24

Flop KJ4

Hero: checks

I want to see action before committing to this, although I'm probably rarely in bad shape (mainly looking to avoid the ace high flush draw).

Pot $183

7: Pots ($185) - He has been known to take stabs and get it in weak.
10: Folds

Hero: Shoves $405. I want to isolate the 7. I could see him betting as weak as bottom 2 which I'd be in great shape, and even against a set I'm not terrible. Against a nut flush draw + K I'm in big trouble but still not dead. There is a reasonable chance I am already ahead against this player, although he is never folding to my raise (even with a lone 4).

4: Folds
5: Folds
6: Folds

Spoiler:


Hand 3

(6-handed since two players left the game after a controversy) Seat 7 has been replaced by a fill-in player who is a dealer/commentator with a short stack.

4 ~$235: $1 SB
5 ~$167: $3 BB
6: $6 Straddle
7 ~$200: Calls $6
10: Raises to $30
Hero 2 (button) ~$362: Raises to $110 with KKQT
4: Calls All-In
5: Calls All-In
6: Folds
7: Folds
10: Repots
Hero 2: Calls I might be against Aces here, but this table has played crazy, but I'm not going to fold getting 4-1 after putting in $110 already.

Case could be made for flatting pre, but the aggressor has been very wide in opening and 6 handed I have a very strong hand.


Spoiler:



More hands to follow, mostly 4 handed action and deeper stacks.
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Old 08-31-2020, 02:16 PM   #2
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Re: 1/3/6 Livestream Hands

Table lineup for these hands - playing 4-handed with 3 blinds.

2 Seat - Me (mostly online Omaha player, some live Omaha experience, but not a lot)
6 Seat - Mostly NL HE Tourney player, solid NLHE player, known as "The Nit"
7 Seat - Commentator/Dealer trying to run up a stack
10 Seat - Aggro Player who is at the cardroom a lot, plays bigger games there.


Going to avoid stack sizes since they are mostly the same throughout, but 7 seat is sitting on a $200-300 stack most the time, I have between $1000-1500, and both other players cover me.

Hand #4

2: Hero SB $1
6: BB $3
7: Straddle $6
10: Raise $25 (he's raising nearly 100% of his buttons to 25)
2: Hero: Calls KTT8
6: Folds
7: Calls $19

Flop: K7T Pot $78

2: Bets $80. I could go for the checkraise but pretty risky with that wet of a board, and there's a chance I get raised anyway.
7: Shoves $174.
10: Folds
2: Obvious call.

Seems obvious of a hand. I don't want to 3 bet and play out of position against the aggro player. Only thing I could have done differently is checked and hoped one of them bet, and try to get in against the big stack.

Spoiler:


Hand 5:

Perhaps one of the more interesting hands.

6:$1 SB
7: $3 BB
10: $6 Straddle
Hero 2: Limps button $6 with 9862:spade

A pretty crappy hand, but double suited and on the button with 3 close together, I can't resist.

6: Raise to $20. The Nit has not gotten out of line much and he has something. My cards play well against his likely range and I have position.
7: Folds
10: Calls

Flop: AQ2 Pot $44

6: Checks
10: Checks
Hero 2: Bets $50. Not the flop I was looking for but when nits check to you, you bet and try to take it down.
6: Calls quickly
10: Folds

Turn Q Pot $144

6: Checks
Hero 2: Checks behind. Betting here is lighting money on fire. I'd have to follow with a river bet and I don't see it being a good idea.

River A Pot $144

6: Checks again.
Hero 2: Every draw missed. I bet the flop and slowed down on the turn with the Q scare card. I can represent an Ace. He's tight. Bet $75.

Spoiler:


Hand 6:

6:$1 SB
7: $3 BB
10: $6 Straddle
Hero 2: Limps raises $25 with KT99:club. Very strong holding 4 handed.
6: Folds
7: Folds
10: 3-bets to $80
Hero 2: Calls. We're the only players ever 3-betting in this 4-handed configuration. I'm not thrilled but I'm never folding this with position and an SPR of 6.

Flop:KQ7 Pot $164

10: Bets $10. I've never seen him do this. Could be some kind of way to see the turn cheap or a trap.
2: Calls (I would have checked behind to pot control).

Turn J Pot $184

10: Bets $5. WTF is he doing here? He trying to suck out cheaply with some kind of 2 pair? Trap?
2: I have no clue what he's doing. I raise and am ready to fold if he pops on me figuring he has AT. I make it $100.


Spoiler:


Part 3 coming shortly.
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Old 08-31-2020, 05:54 PM   #3
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Re: 1/3/6 Livestream Hands

1. calling $75 with this hand is a straight up punt. after everyone shoves who cares probably not worse than $75 dog in the pot and even if you are gamble gamble

2. hand is w/e. I won't tell you to fold pre in ss PLO in the game where no one else folds pre. shove is ok I guess as long as you realize you're not isoing anyone in this game. no one will ever fold nfd here (and they prob shouldn't anyway)

3. this is fine/good. nh

4. standard

5. open button, don't limp. can't really comment on the rest of the hand but you somehow made him fold effective nuts otr so wp I guess?

6. pf is fine. idk what's going on otf but this is live poker he's never strong I can't be bothered to figure out which cards he needs to hit so I'd just maxbet the flop with tp/gutter/backdoor clubs
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Old 08-31-2020, 06:07 PM   #4
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Re: 1/3/6 Livestream Hands

Hand selection is quite poor, most of these hands are better to fold pre. Getting it in with kk ds broadway was fine. For the 9862ds would limp instead of raise.

Ktt8ss is not profitable flat from sb, also ktt9 not a good limp-raise. The jt99r was also very bad.
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Old 08-31-2020, 06:23 PM   #5
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Re: 1/3/6 Livestream Hands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Fish View Post
1. calling $75 with this hand is a straight up punt. after everyone shoves who cares probably not worse than $75 dog in the pot and even if you are gamble gamble
That was what I felt was my biggest mistake of the night. Fairly early in the game, still trying to get a feel for it, best hand I had seen on button, probably mentally committed myself to wanting to see a flop and should have just folded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Fish View Post
2. hand is w/e. I won't tell you to fold pre in ss PLO in the game where no one else folds pre. shove is ok I guess as long as you realize you're not isoing anyone in this game. no one will ever fold nfd here (and they prob shouldn't anyway)
I'm definitely ISO'ing hands like a naked with some runner runner draws that I'm currently behind, also seemed to be the "hard to make a mistake" play jamming if I'm going to call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Fish View Post
5. open button, don't limp. can't really comment on the rest of the hand but you somehow made him fold effective nuts otr so wp I guess?
I think the action tracker might have even messed this up. My logic on this hand was "I can represent the ace" because I raised, and it's entirely possible it messed up. Will was not raising out of the sb often and this wasn't even that strong of a hand, so I don't think he's raising here. I'm pushing chips in the camera and don't think I'm grabbing any, so this could just be an error in how it went down. If I raised here, I like this hand a lot better, and it makes a lot more sense how I played it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Fish View Post
6. pf is fine. idk what's going on otf but this is live poker he's never strong I can't be bothered to figure out which cards he needs to hit so I'd just maxbet the flop with tp/gutter/backdoor clubs
The game was playing fairly "friendly" at this point and people ****ing around for fun, so I couldn't quite tell what he was after. Literally didn't see him do this ever up until this point. He did make a $5 bet on the river with top pair once after this and got called by bottom pair.

I avoided the raise on the flop because I could see him sticking around a lot and making my life harder later, and the small pot would be easier to play with my decent but not great hand with not great draws. Probably should have raised flop. Gutter to the non-nut straight didn't strike me as a hand I wanted to get involved in a big pot with a player who is capable of making moves.
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Old 08-31-2020, 06:28 PM   #6
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Re: 1/3/6 Livestream Hands

Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
Hand selection is quite poor, most of these hands are better to fold pre. Getting it in with kk ds broadway was fine. For the 9862ds would limp instead of raise.

Ktt8ss is not profitable flat from sb, also ktt9 not a good limp-raise. The jt99r was also very bad.
Not sure what I typed, I raised it. I think I was trying to copy the action tracker and it was wrong.

4 handed fold KTT8ss is not profitable against a raise with 0 percent chance of getting 3 bet? That's surprising. I'm a bit partial to pocket tens at this place having hit quads with them twice so they have a soft spot for me here. 8-handed I'll probably dump this but I have a hard time folding 4 handed something like this, maybe I'm doing it wrong.
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Old 08-31-2020, 06:46 PM   #7
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Re: 1/3/6 Livestream Hands

Defending too wide out of sb is a very common and expensive leak - kt88ss is an okish defend vs btn opener normally but with a straddle we should he playing much tighter.

So if in a regular pot we want to raise 9% flat 8% vs btn open, now we probably want to do something like call 2% raise 6%. Even with with weaker players we want to encourage to play this is a pretty dangerous spot. Idk maybe we can flat 5% raise 5%.

Kt88ss is not even a standard call vs a co open unless it is ds.

Last edited by monikrazy; 08-31-2020 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:00 PM   #8
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Re: 1/3/6 Livestream Hands

Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
Defending too wide out of sb is a very common and expensive leak - kt88ss is an okish defend vs btn opener normally but with a straddle we should he playing much tighter.

So if in a regular pot we want to raise 9% flat 8% vs btn open, now we probably want to do something like call 2% raise 6%. Even with with weaker players we want to encourage to play this is a pretty dangerous spot. Idk maybe we can flat 5% raise 5%.

Kt88ss is not even a standard call vs a co open unless it is ds.
I'm curious why this is. In a straddle game there's more money in the pot, so I'm getting better odds here to call. Also with the weakest two players in the BB and straddle, I'm more likely to defend to get a hand against them, and feel safe there won't be a 3 bet (and 3-bet means aces 100% of the time so I can play with them face up). I'm also more likely to defend against overly loose raisers, and re-pop the top parts of my holdings. 10% of hands 4 handed seems *so* tight, and I'm easily popping top 10% against this kind of raiser who is an automatic raiser in the button.

I would say having the SB against this loose raiser was the ideal seat to be in, making it very easy to fold marginal/trash hands, and re-pop strong hands.

I have about 9 more hands I'll transcribe later, including another overly loose call in the SB that I misplayed.

Appreciate the feedback!
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Old 09-01-2020, 01:26 AM   #9
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Re: 1/3/6 Livestream Hands

Position is king in plo - don't get sucked into overvaluing equity that you will not actually be able to realize. Also even if 2 players behind you are not squeezing proper ranges, its still expensive when they do.
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Old 09-01-2020, 10:35 AM   #10
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Re: 1/3/6 Livestream Hands

Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
Position is king in plo - don't get sucked into overvaluing equity that you will not actually be able to realize. Also even if 2 players behind you are not squeezing proper ranges, its still expensive when they do.
Small stack behind me squeezes, I lose the $25 I called. Big stack behind me squeezes, given he is incredibly nitty, he is showing me aces, and I can play the hand if I can beat aces or not.

Does any of this change if the original raiser folds to my bets often on the flop?
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Old 09-01-2020, 01:59 PM   #11
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Re: 1/3/6 Livestream Hands

bro, stop trying to rationalize your fish plays. the truth is, everyone plays bad at live plo, because it's so goddamn slow. that is the beauty of the game. but instead of looking for reasons to play, try looking for reasons to fold.
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Old 09-01-2020, 03:01 PM   #12
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Re: 1/3/6 Livestream Hands

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Originally Posted by PokerPlayingGamble View Post
bro, stop trying to rationalize your fish plays. the truth is, everyone plays bad at live plo, because it's so goddamn slow. that is the beauty of the game. but instead of looking for reasons to play, try looking for reasons to fold.
I'm not trying to rationalize it, just explain my thought process and find out which part of it is wrong so I can correct it, and when to deviate. I very much admit I'm trying to figure this out (being even remotely competent in these types of games and staying out of stupid situations is enough to usually profit, but to play in the more aggressive and capable games I know I'd get crushed and have to adjust).

I was playing super nitty up the 4-handed part, literally playing like 3 hands of any significance over 3-ish hours. I left off hands where it was like "call 25 pre with double suited rundown, flop jack ****, someone bets and raises and I fold easily", but when it got 4-handed I loosened up significantly (and somewhat intentionally given the feel of the game was much less likely to produce trouble situations than when there are hyper aggro bluff-capable players in it where you have to make a hard decision).

In general I'll play looser when the game is weak and passive and tighten up when it gets aggressive and more players are capable of bluffing or betting weaker.
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Old 09-01-2020, 03:28 PM   #13
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Re: 1/3/6 Livestream Hands

Hand 7:

6: Raises to $25
7: SB Folds
10: BB Calls $22
2 (Hero) $1.3K: Straddle Calls 3-bets to $105 with AKJT

Super premium hand 4-handed, position on the toughest player seems like an obvious 3-bet.

6: Calls $80
10: Calls $80

Flop 927

Well that's a shitty flop, although I have a gutshot and two backdoors, so if I can continue the turn could improve things a lot, but I'm not going to make it difficult.

10: Checks
2: Checks
6: Checks

Turn 9

Well that card sucked, first to act on this is probably going to win.

10: Checks
2: Checks
6: Checks

River 4

Hmm, this may be worth taking a stab at now, good chance people will put me on aces or kings and can't call without a 9 or better.

10: Bets $320
2: Folds
6: Folds

I'm starting to think I should have acted on the turn and took a stab at it and gave up if there was any action. 9 was a good scare card, although my 3-bet makes it less likely the 9 is in my range and I am very unlikely to have a full house.

Spoiler:



Hand 8:

2 (Hero $1.2K): $1 SB
6: $3 BB
7: $6 Straddle
10: Raises to $25
2: Calls $24 with 9866

I'm liking double suited low/middle cards better 4 handed than 8, and I figure my range will hit opposite the raisers more often, but with all the previous advice, maybe this is an obvious fold out of the SB.

6: Folds
7: Calls

Flop K8T

Well that missed my range. Best to give up unless I improve a lot.

2: Check
7: Check
10: Check

Turn 3

Changes nothing, I could try to take some initiative but I still don't like betting into 2 people on this wet of a board.

2: Check
7: Check
10: Bets $40
2: Folds





Hand 9:

6: $1 SB
7: $3 BB
10: $6 Straddle
2 (Hero $1.2k): Raise to $25 w/ T983.

Hate the 3 dangler, but I'm on the button with 3 to a straight and double suited. That strong enough to open, or should this have been a fold?

6: Calls $24
7: Calls $22
8: 3-bets to $125

Well damn, this is not good, but I'm liking the middle cards with his likely 3-bet range, and I have position.

2: Calls $100
6: Calls $100
7: Folds

Flop 7 3 2

6: Checks
10: Bets $150
2: Fold
6: Calls

Think my action here is obvious. The rest of the hand is interesting though.

I'll reveal 10's hand and curious what you would do with his hand.

AAQQ

Turn 6


6: Checks
10: Checks

(This seems like an obvious check to me, you had someone call a 3-bet preflop, and call 150 on the turn and now a straight gets there and there are lots of ways someone can have a straight draw that isn't a bad dog against me also show up).

River A

Wish I could have gotten to the turn with my hand Good bet by the guy with aces to get me out!

6: Bets $250
10: ????

Keep in mind this guy is known as the nit. What can he arrive at the river with here. 10 loses to any flush and 45, but has the next best hand.


Spoiler:

Last edited by TomCollins; 09-01-2020 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 09-01-2020, 04:07 PM   #14
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Re: 1/3/6 Livestream Hands

Hand 10:

This might be the worst I played in a hand. Which mistake was the worst.

10: $1 BB
2 (Hero) $1.2K: $3 BB
6: $6 Straddle
7: Folds
10: Raise to $25
2: Calls $22 AJJ3

3 dangler sucks, but I have position on the aggressor. Too loose of a call?

6: Folds

Flop T63

Not the worst flop I could see, but not really many turns and rivers that I will want to see here.

10: Bets $25

I saw him do this small bet bullshit before already and he had been doing it when he wanted to see cheap cards, so I don't buy for a second he has much. Still I don't exactly have a hand that will get to showdown often. Should I just give up here once I've come this far? Should I raise him? Was really unsure here and calling seemed like the easiest route and evaluate the turn.

2: Calls $25

Turn 7

10: Bets $25

He wants to get to the river/showdown cheaply. But so do I. Oblidged.

2: Calls $25

River 2

10: Checks
2: Checks

Easy check behind here, I have showdown value, and nothing worse is calling, and few hands better are folding.


Spoiler:



Hand 11:

2 (Hero) $1.3K: $1 SB
6: $3 BB
7: $6 Straddle
10: Raise to $25 (he has 4 cards, surprised)

2: KKQ2 A really shitty pair of kings, am I really supposed to fold this 4 handed? I call

6: Calls $25
7: Calls $25

Flop K 2 3

Not a bad flop, having the 2 sucks. Debating between betting out or attempting a check-raise.

2: Checks (I should have bet out here, looking back). I was willing to take the chance and give up/slow down if a bad card came on the turn if my checkraise missed), but given how aggressive 10 seat was, it seemed like I had to leave this kind of hand for a checkraise to punish continuation bets from him so he can't just do that when checked to, and fold when I bet.

6: Checks
7: Checks
10: Checks

Well damn, that didn't work. However, I'm much less scared about the hearts if they get there.

Turn 8

Probably the best card I can hope for here, other than the board pairing.

2: Bet $100 - Regretting the missed value on the flop, I bet full pot.

6: Calls $100
7: Folds
10: Folds

So he's either got some kind of decent hand (2 pair+) or a strong flush draw likely with a pair.

River T

Wow, a set is the nuts in Omaha, that's rare. Every draw missed, and he's probably not going to bluff a missed draw, so I have to bet and hope he is willing to call again. Bet sizing is tricky here, he called $100, definitely don't want to go full pot.

2: Bet $200
6: Tanks and folds.

Looks like I missed value here and misplayed this one.

Spoiler:


Hand 12:

7: SB $1
10: BB $3
2 (Hero $1K): Straddle $6
6: Raises to $25
7: Folds
10: Calls
2: AKKQ 3-bets to $105
6: Calls $80
10: Calls $80

Flop 27J

Not the worst flop, but I'm not going to be thrilled with action.

10: Checks
2: Bets $200
6: Folds
10: Folds

Seems standard.

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