If they are calling/raising $50, they are doing the same with $75. I guess you can bet $35 - $40, let them call with a set or some stupid two pair, and then continue on turn when they hit and fold when they miss. And you can pray you hit the turn or just shove missed turn and pray.

I don't think betting small here is going to induce someone who wouldn't raise a pot bet. What can they have? Given stack sizes, any set should be shoving, and that's about it.

Maybe you'll get lucky and someone will call w/ QhXh and won't be able to fold turn.

$35-$40 is def too small to try and balance with our range. We're betting into 5 people so we're not going to be doing it that lightly but at the same time the board isn't too co-ordinated and I'm going to want to bet a hand like AA4 here and fold to a raise. And I feel like a bet of $50-$60 accomplishes the same thing but allows us to save money the times we are folding to a raise.

I also think in general some-one with Kxxx with Q high fd or a low wrap + FD are hands that might raise a smaller sized bet but are only going to flat (or even fold esp if it's just KQT8 with Q high) when you pot it because now it seems like they have no fold equity and/or can be more likely dominated.

I am never, ever, in a million years folding to a raise. The whole point of this hand is to gii. If you are folding $250 in a 1/2/5 PLO hand with a pair of aces and the nut flush draw on this board, you should quit PLO.

I can't imagine anyone treats $50 - $60 differently from $75 in this hand, but people do weird things. I guess if you would actually consider folding here, they might try to save an extra $20.

I think you are missing the point.

Obviously, with our exact hand, we will never fold. However, we want to give the impression that folding is a possibility for us, and opponents may incorrect think they have fold equity and jam. That's why we bet 66% or 80% pot, instead of 100% pot.

In addition, we can balance some of our other hands that we do want to bet fold in this spot.

Interesting. I don't think I'd ever bet/fold here with a $250 stack, but maybe my opponents don't realize that -- of course, then they aren't very aware players and might take the bait. I still have a hard time believing $50-$60 is going to get a different response than $75 -- at least not against my typical opponents. Maybe if more money were involved.

You should never bet fold in this situation on the flop, with any hole cards.

This is kind of my point. The entire table should know I'm never bet/folding, so might as well go to $75 and not let them flat some random 45, etc., for $50 hoping to see a good/safe turn.

vanvliet, you checked, and I assume it checked around. What was the turn? Can't give advice on what to do w/o knowing the card -- too many variables.

You can definitely be bet/folding this flop with some hands against multiple people wanting to GII.

I do think there are players who will call a smaller bet (like half pot) with K2 or 32 but fold those hands to a full pot bet if they have players behind them.

Ya for sure stacking off here. Don't forget the times you get it in against a hand like KQhXh and have him crushed, too. We'd like more to go with our overpair + NFD but this flop is raggedy enough for it to be fine.

I really don't understand this at all. I'm a live PLO crusher and I think this spot is extremely close in terms of EV between check, bet small, and bet large. Yes, the part about bet-folding being an option is silly of course, but the situation as a whole is quite interesting. I think the EV of the play comes down strictly to the other players in the pot and how they play their weak, medium, and strong hands accordingly. Some questions would need to be answered, e.g. what happens if turn completes flush and a player is holding a Q-high flush? Does he check or bet? How elastic and/or inelastic are players calling ranges based on bet size (e.g. likelihood of folding medium-strength flush draw to 1/2 pot bet vs pot bet)? Have any of the players in the hand capped their range by checking? Although the capping range part seems unlikely given the number of players behind, it is still something to consider against specific players who might always be leading KK, 33, or 22 here. Ultimately, because it's so hard to answer these questions without a fair amount of history, I actually think any of the 3 options is perfectly fine here and perhaps you should select a default based on your general perception of the games and build your range accordingly. Conventional wisdom says betting these sort of nutty draws in multi-way pots is always the best choice, but with the SPR being so low we lose out on implied odds when we get raised and without a doubt less players will be calling their medium-strength draws vs. pot size bets. To figure out the actual EV of all the different lines in this spot you would have to account for so much that I think it's pure arrogance to say there is a clear and away best decision here.

I never like to idea of betting a hand to artificially boost your equity with your own money, if that makes sense. You could bet enough to justify any call on later streets with ATC. I play a lot of PLO and a lot of times your getting your money in with just a flush draw and set outs. I make my money on people stacking off on essentially naked flush draws . This hand looks to be a monster but it's essentially a flush draw. Of course the aces have a lot of value but if someone jams on me I'm way behind. Its a tough spot you find yourself in a lot with aces, and I'd say most people would be way ahead if they folded all their Aces pre where they can't get a large portion of their stack in. They are just very tough to play in 3-6 way pots, especially when you play against tough opponents who may be check calling sets on you/ flatting in position

I thing http://www.propokertools.com/simulations will make your life easier.

You have 10 outs against set.

First part of post... decent advice.

2nd part is utter garbage... AA is the hand you make by FAR the most money with in PLO and you certainly don't achieve that by folding it pre-flop ever.