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Old 04-13-2009, 11:59 PM   #176
tercet
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

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JP is the worst exec in professional sports who hasn't been fired yet.

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Old 04-14-2009, 12:01 AM   #177
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

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We desperately need a guy close to Doc's calibre behind him in the rotation. The Jays haven't had one as long as he's been the ace. Burnett doesn't count, way overrated imo and overpaid to boot.

It's too bad Marcum and McGowan weren't healthy to start this season, would've been interesting to see if they could continue their form...hopefully McGowan's close to peak when he comes back but I'm skeptical.
I'm sure teams will be lining up to trade a pitcher near Halladay's calibre for Rios


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Old 04-14-2009, 12:09 AM   #178
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

i can only dream of the year the jays get their pitching and hitting going at the same time...i swear they just rotate
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:36 AM   #179
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

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162 game season...Ricciardi's on his 2nd 5-year plan and we're still nowhere near the playoffs.
Correct...6-2 is nothing

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Originally Posted by Geddy Lee View Post
JP is the worst exec in professional sports who hasn't been fired yet.
Not correct...he has put together a good team
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:39 AM   #180
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

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Originally Posted by Geddy Lee View Post
We desperately need a guy close to Doc's calibre behind him in the rotation. The Jays haven't had one as long as he's been the ace. Burnett doesn't count, way overrated imo and overpaid to boot.

It's too bad Marcum and McGowan weren't healthy to start this season, would've been interesting to see if they could continue their form...hopefully McGowan's close to peak when he comes back but I'm skeptical.
Ya lets just get a top 5-10 pitcher in MLB. Those are easy to find and don't cost very much to get. Burnett got too much hate, he wasn't the player he could have been if everything perfectly came together, but he was still very valuable and despite what others said it always seemed really clear to me that he wanted to win. Doubtful McGowan comes back close to top form, but lets hope so.

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162 game season...Ricciardi's on his 2nd 5-year plan and we're still nowhere near the playoffs.

JP is the worst exec in professional sports who hasn't been fired yet.

I don't know what the feelings are about Rios with the Jays fans 2+2ers, but I can't stand the guy. I'll never forget that press conference..."I can't believe they're paying me this much to play baseball."

You and me both, brother...
JP is pretty average. He has made some good moves he has made some bad moves, he isn't Billy Beane or Mark Shapiro, but he isn't Ed Wade or Brian Sabean.
Below are his win totals and pythagorean win totals since taking over.
2008 86 93
2007 83 87
2006 87 86
2005 80 88
2004 67 71
2003 86 87
2002 78 80
2001 80 82

A combination of bad luck, injuries and being in the hardest division in baseball is what has prevented the jays from making the playoffs the last 4 years. If they were in any other division or could luckbox and run a couple games over expectation they would have made a couple playoff runs.

I don't get the Rios and Wells hate they aren't Sizemore/Guerrero/Ramirez type players, but they are good players who are valuable to the team. It seems like Toronto fans really like hating their star players from McCabe to Delgado to Wells to Rios to Bosh, instead of ripping guys like that they should probably be ripping guys like Scutaro/McDonald/Overbay/Litsch etc.
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:45 AM   #181
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

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Not correct...he has put together a good team
What team would that be?
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Old 04-14-2009, 01:23 AM   #182
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

I really like JP, he has done an excellent job of drafting the last 3 years and has given the Jays a very good team with excellent pitching. Also Mccabe was never a star and was always terrible. He got a lot of points his 1st few years in TO to mask his giveaways, but the bad always outweighed the good.
The Blue Jays pitching and hitting has rotated the last 12 years in a row . I also felt that Marcum was the Jays best pitcher for most of last year and the last half of 07 as well(even better than Halladay) Marcum seemed to never get any run support and couldnt throw more than 90-100 pitches so he couldnt eat innings like Halladay tho.
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Old 04-14-2009, 01:38 AM   #183
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

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What team would that be?
th team that sucks chit all season long...then pulls off a good september (when all playoff hopes are gone)...making next season look hopefull...thus securing JPs job.

I like the fact that we didint go out and try to buy some high priced over the hill players again. This gives everyne in the clubhouse a different mentality going in...and i thnk its a good one.

Having guys like Lind, Snyder develop and Hill, Rios and others come into their own should be the key to the progress of this season imo.
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Old 04-14-2009, 02:14 AM   #184
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

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What team would that be?
LOL...cmon dude we are in the same division as 3 of the best teams in baseball and regularly finish above .500

And there's some talent on this team, only thing about JP I don't like is he doesn't draft well and very stubborn on drafting HS players with high ceilings (except Snider obv)

JP isn't the best GM but he's not the worst, a future team of

Halladay/Marcum/McGowan/Purcey/Cecil is a good rotation

Not to mention an outfield/DH of Snider/Wells/Rios/Lind is very good

Maybe an infield of Ahrens/Jackson/Hill/Cooper/Arenciabia can be good, we'll see
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Old 04-14-2009, 02:57 AM   #185
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

does anybody hate a
Hill
Snider
Rios
Wells
Lind
Rolen
Overbay
Barajas
Scooter
lineup?

I mean Scutaro is a career like .252 or something isn't he? I'd way rather see Snider up in the order for more at-bats, even if it sacrifices the speed at the top of the order.
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:04 AM   #186
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

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Originally Posted by Pudge714 View Post
I don't get the Rios and Wells hate they aren't Sizemore/Guerrero/Ramirez type players, but they are good players who are valuable to the team. It seems like Toronto fans really like hating their star players from McCabe to Delgado to Wells to Rios to Bosh, instead of ripping guys like that they should probably be ripping guys like Scutaro/McDonald/Overbay/Litsch etc.
Delgado was a great player but ate up 25% of the team's payroll at the time.

Bryan McCabe? Come on. He was a pathetic excuse for a defenceman. One great season on the PP, then every PK in the NHL put a guy high on his point and he went downhill. Not to mention his habit of choking in every big game he played...McCabe was the most overrated Toronto defenceman since Luke Richardson or Al Iafrate, take your pick.

Bosh is another overrated baby. Stop crying for calls and get your head in the game imo.

I don't think Toronto fans have been that unfair with your aforementioned examples. If they're primed to make top-end money, I want to see top-end production. No ifs, ands or buts. Especially in a sport like baseball, your individual performance shouldn't be that correlated to the surrounding cast. An at-bat is an at-bat, you don't have linemates to worry about.

And yes, I'm well aware that you can't just step out and pick up a superstar pitcher for nothing. How you acquire a solid #2, I don't know.

Was Ryan Dempster ever really available, or was it kinda just assumed he was back with the Cubs no matter what?
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:08 AM   #187
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

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LOL...cmon dude we are in the same division as 3 of the best teams in baseball and regularly finish above .500
I dunno, I think that's a bit of a cop-out.

The Rays finally figured it out. Remember, we used to be content with finishing 3rd behind TWO of the best teams in baseball.

I still think the MLB playoffs should include more teams.
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:31 AM   #188
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

Wells is a guy who can be ripped since after signing a 7yr/$126MM contract he had the worst year of his career, followed by an injury-riddled year.

However, while I still think the dude can play, I didn't think it was a good idea to resign him then, and I still don't think so now. I think JP was pressured into signing him after his good year, but we would have got A LOT for him...I dunno

As far as Toronto fans bashing their star players...Toronto fans are idiots in general, just tune into the Fan and find out. Although the fact that most this city's sports teams have usually been run by morons (MLSE) and the city hasn't seen a championship since 93 doesn't help my argument.
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:32 AM   #189
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

Halladay's been one of the best pitchers in the league for years. I feel bad for the guy, almost like we're wasting a great career with team mediocrity.
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:42 AM   #190
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

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However, while I still think the dude can play, I didn't think it was a good idea to resign him then, and I still don't think so now. I think JP was pressured into signing him after his good year, but we would have got A LOT for him...I dunno
I agree with this entirely.

Quote:
As far as Toronto fans bashing their star players...Toronto fans are idiots in general, just tune into the Fan and find out. Although the fact that most this city's sports teams have usually been run by morons (MLSE) and the city hasn't seen a championship since 93 doesn't help my argument.
I dunno, you could probably say that for the majority of big cities in North America...more people = more idiots.

Toronto's a funny sports town though...we're not a traditional baseball/basketball town...30 years of top flight ball is nothing compared to the storied histories of American franchises, and we've only had the Raps since what, '95? So a lot of people are still, for the most part, clueless about those sports in question...this is definitely applicable to the Raptors fanbase.

On the other hand, Toronto is hockey. EVERYONE has an opinion, from the guy who's had season tickets since 1948 to the newly-immigrated cab driver who just picked you up on Yonge St. before the game. Clearly only a small % of people have ever played the game at a level competitive enough to know how tough hockey really is (the toughest of all major pro sports to play imo), so that makes the majority of opinions worthless...the thing is, there are just so so many. Probably like people chiming in on the Yankees in New York, or the Lakers in Los Angeles.
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Old 04-14-2009, 08:58 AM   #191
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

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Clearly only a small % of people have ever played the game at a level competitive enough to know how tough hockey really is (the toughest of all major pro sports to play imo), so that makes the majority of opinions worthless
I completely agree that the majority of sports fans are clueless, but to say that only people who've played hockey (or any sport) at a high level can have an opinion is ridiculous.

Toronto always overhypes or unfairly bashes a player. There's no in between. McCabe got too much credit when he was good, and was bashed too much when he was bad.
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:41 AM   #192
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Thumbs down Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

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Originally Posted by thebigeasy59 View Post
does anybody hate a
Hill
Snider
Rios
Wells
Lind
Rolen
Overbay
Barajas
Scooter
lineup?

I mean Scutaro is a career like .252 or something isn't he? I'd way rather see Snider up in the order for more at-bats, even if it sacrifices the speed at the top of the order.
This was the original lineup I thought we might have for opening day, but again you have 3 str8 righty bats in there, so maybe flipping overbay and barajas, but I would rather Overbay hit ahead of Barajas anyway.
You can't move Scutaro down just yet as he has done an excellent job of hitting and getting on base. Perhaps if he has a major slump then move him down.
Also, how has Russ Adams done the last 3 years in the minors?
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:45 AM   #193
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

Since we're on the topic, McCabe was the most overrated defenseman in the NHL.

Oh, and go Jays IMO. Anyone going to be there when they visit the Fish? (Assuming that even happens this year?) I live in Miami, so I'll get to those games. Also considering roadtrips to Tampa.
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Old 04-14-2009, 11:56 AM   #194
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

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I completely agree that the majority of sports fans are clueless, but to say that only people who've played hockey (or any sport) at a high level can have an opinion that properly accounts for how players think and behave, as well as how damn hard it is to actually play the game is correct.
First FYP in like two years. woohoo.

For the millionth time in this forum, hockey generally does not adopt the SABRmetric style of management well. Baseball is a game of finite variables that can be quantified, while hockey is too "flowy" to be broken down into discrete variables to "solve".

Hockey is a team game that requires subjective, emotional irrrational behaviour to play "well". Without understanding the effects of this behaviour on teammates, opponents, fans, whoever, it is near impossible to objectively evaluate the contribution a player makes to his team.

Last edited by Gamblor; 04-14-2009 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 04-14-2009, 04:18 PM   #195
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

I hear Brandon League has a tattoo on his arm that says "100'ish"...douche
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Old 04-14-2009, 04:56 PM   #196
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

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Delgado was a great player but ate up 25% of the team's payroll at the time.

Bryan McCabe? Come on. He was a pathetic excuse for a defenceman. One great season on the PP, then every PK in the NHL put a guy high on his point and he went downhill. Not to mention his habit of choking in every big game he played...McCabe was the most overrated Toronto defenceman since Luke Richardson or Al Iafrate, take your pick.

Bosh is another overrated baby. Stop crying for calls and get your head in the game imo.

I don't think Toronto fans have been that unfair with your aforementioned examples. If they're primed to make top-end money, I want to see top-end production. No ifs, ands or buts. Especially in a sport like baseball, your individual performance shouldn't be that correlated to the surrounding cast. An at-bat is an at-bat, you don't have linemates to worry about.

And yes, I'm well aware that you can't just step out and pick up a superstar pitcher for nothing. How you acquire a solid #2, I don't know.

Was Ryan Dempster ever really available, or was it kinda just assumed he was back with the Cubs no matter what?
It's not McCabe or Delgado's fault they were overpaid, I don't expect athlete's to turn down free money, I expect management to run the team well.
McCabe was a good albeit one dimensional defenseman who got a contract he didn't deserve. Until the final year of his contract Delgado was a top 30 hitter in MLB and one MVP caliber season and one top 10 season. Bosh is a top 10 player in the NBA and people in Toronto dislike him because he is "soft" eventhough a primary reason why he is valuable is because he has an efficient midrange game. It seems like Torontians would rather blame franchise players for not being future HOFers than blaming role players for sucking.


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I dunno, I think that's a bit of a cop-out.

The Rays finally figured it out. Remember, we used to be content with finishing 3rd behind TWO of the best teams in baseball.

I still think the MLB playoffs should include more teams.
The Rays were so historically awful that they had 3 first overall picks and several top 2/3 picks. They managed to rebuild by being so awful for such a long period of team.
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Old 04-14-2009, 05:28 PM   #197
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

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I completely agree that the majority of sports fans are clueless, but to say that only people who've played hockey (or any sport) at a high level can have an opinion is ridiculous.
Not just have an opinion...anyone can have an opinion, but when Vito from Woodbridge calls into the Fan 590 and talks about how all of the Leafs problems will be solved when Dougie comes out of retiremet, and presents it as a matter-of-fact, that's a bit ridiculous.

It's not so much opinions on the Leafs in T.O. as it is everyone's an expert on hockey in T.O., I think that's what I was getting at.
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Old 04-14-2009, 05:57 PM   #198
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

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As far as Toronto fans bashing their star players...Toronto fans are idiots in general, just tune into the Fan and find out.
Please direct me to a city that has intelligent, well reasoned, well thought out discussion among knowledgeable people on talk radio.
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Old 04-14-2009, 05:59 PM   #199
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

Just a disclaimer, you know far more about non-hockey than I do, so I apologize for relating most stuff back to the NHL in my posts.

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It's not McCabe or Delgado's fault they were overpaid, I don't expect athlete's to turn down free money, I expect management to run the team well.
McCabe was a good albeit one dimensional defenseman who got a contract he didn't deserve. Until the final year of his contract Delgado was a top 30 hitter in MLB and one MVP caliber season and one top 10 season. Bosh is a top 10 player in the NBA and people in Toronto dislike him because he is "soft" eventhough a primary reason why he is valuable is because he has an efficient midrange game. It seems like Torontians would rather blame franchise players for not being future HOFers than blaming role players for sucking.
And what's wrong with expecting more from your top guys? Afaik, people still harp on the Stajans and Overbays quite a bit, but they can only do so much.

If a guy gets paid big money, I want to see big performance. I don't feel sorry for athletes getting criticized after signing big contracts, it's part of the territory. Maybe McCabe's feelings got hurt when people called him overpaid. Well, he was. He also went home to a hot wife, swank condo and could wipe away his tears with c notes.

Delgado, I always liked, class act and a legit superstar, it was just a Pavel-Bure-in-Florida situation and he couldn't be held onto, I think that scenario played itself out.

As for the "soft" thing, I think Torontonians are pretty honest...it's a hockey town first and foremost and they love to see their star athletes show some grit and guts. Sittler, McDonald, Clark, Gilmour, CuJo, they were all heart n' soulers who would sacrifice anything to win games. Canadian sports fans have no time for wimps.

Then again...heh, it all comes down to winning. People love winners.

Quote:
The Rays were so historically awful that they had 3 first overall picks and several top 2/3 picks. They managed to rebuild by being so awful for such a long period of team.
Yes, this is very true. But you still have to draft well and manage your ballclub to cultivate that talent. Consecutive high draft picks do not always equate success...how else can you explain situations like the New York Islanders and Los Angeles Clippers otherwise?

People can criticize MLSE all they want, but JFJ and Babock were canned before it got any worse (although it was pretty bad, lol), and I'm sure the organization feels they've got two men who were the best for the job in Burke and Colangelo. JP's leash has been far too long considering how pathetic his first 5-year plan was.

I would love to be eating crow pie come July and watch this Jays squad make a push for the wild card. Please very much this.
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Old 04-14-2009, 06:43 PM   #200
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Re: Toronto Blue Jays: 2009 season thread!

Anyone want to do this Friday?

http://www.drunkjaysfans.com/2007/02...d-to-know.html
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