It obviously tilts the discussion, but it does still matter.

For the record I have backed off the of referee stuff a lot since Saturday and I sobered up and I really don't care about it anymore, and this is before the WNDU stuff. Arguing with Michigan fans was the main bases for it, mostly because of the lolexcuses arguments from last year's game.

I agree that we can still have a good season and there is a lot of good that came from how we played on Saturday, I realized that when I woke up on Sunday.

No, and I'm a Knicks fan.

Beautiful cases of having neither the facts nor the law, and being left to pound the table.

If you can't even let the video thing go, it is you in fog.

Not even Weis argued that ND didn't hold.

I thought there was way too much chippiness/garbage between receivers and dbs allowed in that game. The refs didn't handle it early, and it escalated.

An over matched Michigan team, playing in front of their home fans, rallied to win a close game on the back of a couple of great performances. That really is the story, even if on balance they got an extra call or no call or two (and I'm not conceding this because I can't review the tape and am not going to do the bean counting-- precisely because it wasn't the story).

Before this weekend you were a good poster. Not sure what happened other than your beloved domers losing to Michigan.

I don't believe for a second that WNDU had exclusive access to that feed. That reporter has an agenda and looks to me like a lying liar who lies.

I think the TV coverage was poor because it didn't focus on the right shot-- my memory is that they did show the conclusive shot, but without stopping and zooming.

I guess this is directed at me but I let the video thing go like 2 days ago. I just wanted to point out then when I made my 8k posts about the call being overturned I was going off the same evidence everyone else was that it was a bad call. If evidence comes out 3 days later that shows he steps out obviously I look stupid, but if I knew he stepped out then I wouldn't have went crazy about it.

That was directed at DMW who still seems to think that the video over turn was not fair play.

I have no problem with anyone who missed it the first time just because I saw it correctly. The surprising thing to me is that I saw it correctly and so many were wrong. As I said before, I think the bigger mystery is why TV coverage handled it so poorly.

I mean if the referee overturned it without seeing the evidence than it matters in the sense that you wonder how the hell he overturned it, but if in actuality he stepped out of bounds then it's tough to get too riled up about it.

I'm just going to assume the referee saw the definitive angle at this point.

Yes and yes. I'd only add that the notion that the ref didn't have the definitive angle, and pulled the overturn out of his Maize loving cornhole, while only in cruel twist of fate getting it correct, is simultaneously piffle and balderdash.

FWIW, I saw this finger shushing about 10 times already during the season... only once was it called

that was a poor call by any standard

So other refs missing calls makes this ref getting the call correct somehow wrong? Interesting theory. lol JUICEEEEEEE.

it's similar to an o-linemen holding the jersey inside the shoulders when face-to-face against a defender

it's never called... a player shouldn't expect it to be called at that crucial moment
it was an awful case of an official interjecting himself into the outcome of a game

don't understand why you keep referring to Juice... Forcier's game this past week still doesn't come close to what Juice did in AA last year

Forcier is a true freshman and has played 2 games....and he's CLEARLY better then Juice Williams...like it's not even debatable.

LOL... if you could choose Juice Williams or Tate Forcier to be your QB for the rest of this season, who would you choose?

In other words:

We've been waiting for Juice to take the "next step" for how long now? Lol

http://mvictors.com/?p=4633

In the comments there are people who claim to have been sitting in the student section saying that Allen said, "Shut the **** up, you ******s."

he did last year... but you don't believe in stats and whatnot.
Juice set the individual yardage record in 3 separate stadiums last year with a crummy o-line. He threw for over 3,000 yards with 57.5% completions and 22TDs to 16INTs. He ran for over 700 yards and 5 more TDs. He brought a team that was incapable of power rushing or protecting for deep passes to be the best offense in the Big Ten.

EDIT: Don't punish Juice or create a false image of him because Ron Zook sucks at crucial in-game decisions.

sigh.... it was a bad call, but not a big deal

all of this stuff is just distracting from the main point: genius Charlie Weis ****ed this game up in a big way. The difference between him and DickRod decided the outcome.

this picture is really awesome

Shockingly, fat Charlie has taken to crying about the refs.

He still is not aware of any evidence that Armando was out of bounds.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

He's just the gift that keeps on giving.

Every team holds, except Michigan, I'm saying we didn't on the one play where they needed a call to take backanother TD.


Until they stopped calling it when it was clear that Weis would make them go for jump balls all the time.

Yes, M played well. And they got help. Time for ND to show some backbone and inform the Big11 that the visiting team brings the referees or no more games.

UM was flagged for holding 4 times.

ND was flagged for holding 3 times.

I can see how that would strike you as one sided.

As for the one that got away, here is part of what Charlie had to say: "I'm not going to complain about the holding calls. I went and watched the holding calls. You could see evidence of them calling holding. You could see evidence, okay?"

I really didn't think ND fans could sink any lower. Ever wonder why everyone hates your program? Because your coach and your fans are the whiniest bitches ever.

Nothing about the officiating was wrong or unfair. This is not even really debatable at this point, yet the bitching continues.

I'm going to have go with blaming Weis's predecessor for being a 3 touchdown dog at home to Purdue in Charlie's third year was lower.

There is a lot to choose from.