non Yankee fans please tell Yankee fans that their pen is not top 5 in the league like several of them think in this thread.

And oh yea for those who think im stupid by saying last year yankees had a 2 man pen. Last year I said that the Yankees pen minus mo and joba would have a 4.50era+(all you guys bashe me then) and guess what happened and your a f'in ****** if you think thats good or even average.


In regards to the Jays Carlson will probably regress, while Downs will say the same roughly, while League will get better(closer of future), Wolfe most likely won't even make the team(hes the same thing pretty much as ramirez/veras for you guys lol our depth). Ryan is our oldest pitcher in our pen at 33, while Yankees have several his age and older hence likely to regress. Ya our sp will probably be 2 man + 3 random this year, but our pen will hold us in the game as they've proven the last 2 seasons.

tercet, please to be betting. i say, brandon league will have a lower era+ than 196 that he had last year. $50 even money fair?

also, saying that bj ryan is 33 while mo is 39 is really cherry-picking your stats. yes, on paper you'd say ryan is in better shape. but then you realize that one guy has spent significant time on the dl over the last 2 years, while the other has not had less than 70 IP as a closer for the last 6 years.

Sorry I miss quoted somewhat, I believe he will become a better pitcher. But ya I agree 1% chance he has an era under 2. League is a one pitch pitcher, with a 95-99 sinker with a 90mph slider and low 90s changeup(lol). For the last 3 seasons he was up and down from our AAA team to toronto. He had giant control problems, once Cito came he sorta clicked while still having a hickup once in a while(throwing his pitches other then his sinker). No doubt his era will go down, his sample size wasn't large enough last year, he will probably be a righty specialist this year high 2 era.

I don't deny the Jays pen is a bit better but the end difference that will have on the two team's W/L is very small.

no one is denying the jays pen is better. i'm saying the yankees have an above average bullpen. somehow this is laughable to tercet, who thinks it's full of old arms (lol).

guess what happened? the yankees called up a bunch of young arms and they pitched well. jesus, you are a moron.

we got Giese and Robertson for our bullpen too, and both are solid. i dunno why Giese hasn't gotten more of a shot in MLB before now. and roberston has sexy ratios.

I didn't say it was all full of old arms, but I said several are. But since Triumph doesn't believe in stats, lets just let the bullpen stats do the talking at end of this year, just like Thayer, and several others said I was a moron last spring when I proved them wrong.

Even though Yankees will most likely have 5-10 more wins then my Jays.

You guys can take BJ ryan from us for hughes if u want, since he will rot in your bullpen since you guys haven't had a decent LHP reliever in a while..

those 5-10 wins is the difference of actually being in the playoffs and contending, versus being a perennial 3rd or 4th in the division.

why do we go through this every year with blue jay fans?

btw, arod homered today. f the haters!

Not really, I agree with kyle about how the impact of a pen is far smaller than most people think. I was just replying to sylar concerning whether it's reasonable to think that the Jays do have a better pen than the Yankees. Don't really want to take this discussion too far anyway; it is a Yankees thread, not a Yankees vs. Jays: which pen is better? thread.

except we have damaso marte, who's been one of the best left-handed non-closer non-LOOGYs around.

several are? what the hell are you talking about? you have rivera. and marte. and that is it. rivera is as healthy as they come, and marte has been fairly healthy over his career. giese may not make the roster and if he does it'll be as the long man. that's it for old pitchers. you are seriously stupid, plus you haven't even bothered to consider the fact that the yankees defense sucks and that's why their ERAs are generally higher. the yankees bullpen led the league in strikeouts last season. with joba out of there for good, it figures to be less, but it should still be top ten, with all but giese capable of striking out a batter per inning. it's a better than average bullpen. and the jays' bullpen will have more high-leverage innings pitched by low-leverage pitchers because of burnett's defection.

Rivera is not healthy. He's a near lock for a DL stint once a year.

Giese has 600k's in 650IP in the minors, he's capable.

where are you getting this?

http://www2.sportsnet.ca/baseball/ml...ariano_Rivera/

looks like three 15-day stints and one 40-day in 8 years. and only one since 2003.

sylar,

A combo of my poor memory and BP:

"I say this every year, but Rivera's that weird red, the guy who'll have one minor injury, going to the DL sometimes, then coming back just as dominant."

FML.

Old players are not healthy. That's just how it is.

fair enough, but who would you bet to hit the DL this season: rivera or ryan?

Ryan, obviously (lol arm action). The Jays have a better bullpen, they're a better bet to stay healthy, and it all doesn't matter because the Yankees have a first baseman that isn't Lyle Overbay. That's my stance on it all.

How in the world are there 1,000 posts about the Yankees bullpen without a mention of Mark Melancon, who will probably be their second best reliever by midseason?

?

so, the mariano vs ryan debate is basically an argument for the yankees because of factors other than age.

and aside from the closer position the yankee bullpen is really not much older than the blue jays bullpen, so the health argument really doesn't apply.

regardless, i agree that it doesn't matter whose bullpen is better when there are much bigger differences to compare between these teams... or other teams... other than the jays... let's stop talking about the jays.

LOL @ thread title. Not a good way to start the season. Girardi has a ring or two imo. Why can't we just have: "New York Yankees 2009 Season Thread". Would that be too much to ask? Or at the very least change "Girardi" to "Arod".

Anyway, I'm pumped for this season. That twitter stuff is pretty funny. Whoever went out of their way to create those gimmick accounts deserves a congratulations. Worried about our outfield more than anything else (LDO). Gonna be tough now with the Rays not sucking. Will be 'interesting' to see how Arod will do this season. Nice start with the HR.

99 wins imo. Slightly optimistic, but definately not unrealistic.

Also, kyleb is a Yankees fan? When did that happen?

KyleB just brings the truth sauce, not a Yankees fan.

Ah, ok. Got my hopes up.

Very excited since he is much more valuable than his .219 BA. Plus he is Boss. Thank you.

fine, someone change Girardi to Arod. i never said Girardi never had a WS ring. i said he has much more visibility and responsibility as a skipper, than a part-time catcher. yankee fans will from now on judge him on what he is doing for the yankees as a manager.

[ ] gimmick accounts