New York Mets: We ****ing Quit - Page 831 - Single-Team Season Threads -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

A. Harvey is a Boras client.
B. Harvey had Tommy John recently
C. Harvey will likely be on an innings limit, and as such restricted play. I would not be willing to pay a ****load of money for someone who could miss starts, or not go as deep in games because of innings limitations.

Contracts this off season? You mean for Price, Greinke & Cueto? Sure! They are all #1 Aces with proven track records. Syndergard & DeGrom have very little Major league experience, and only have 1 or 2 seasons under their belts. Unproven durability.
Harvey: has he every pitched a full season? come close to 200+ IP? nope. closest was 189 this past season,

Mike Leake just got $80 million.

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12-30-2015 , 10:56 PM

#20752

mullen

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Luffy

I'm not quite sure what you are arguing. If you're arguing the Mets pitchers aren't very good you're objectively wrong. If you're arguing they wouldn't get significantly more on the open market right now, you're objectively wrong too.

Mike Leake got 16m/yr for 5 years. Samardzija got 18m/yr for 5 years. All the guys you quoted are better right now and younger. Of course they are worth more than that.

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12-31-2015 , 12:08 AM

#20753

Captain Luffy

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Giants overpaid for Shark. Not worth 18M a yr based on what I've seen, IMO.
Leake is a very average MLB pitcher.

Organizations are paying high premiums for pitchers, which is inflating contracts.

I'm questioning the durability and resiliency of arms which are largely untested for full seasons at the industry standard workload (200+ IP) None of Harvey/Degrom/Syndergard have done that. Until they pitch full seasons worth, I would not give any of them more than 17-19 Million/yr. Only exception could be Harvey as he's the more Senior of the trio.

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12-31-2015 , 11:54 AM

#20754

fanmail

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Luffy

Harvey at best will be a $14-18M /yr pitcher. DeGrom will likely be at best 16-20M. Syndergaard likely 13-19M

wat

They would all get 25M+ per year right now if they were FAs.

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12-31-2015 , 11:57 AM

#20755

metsandfinsfan

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Quote:

Originally Posted by fanmail

wat

They would all get 25M+ per year right now if they were FAs.

None would in his first year of arb

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12-31-2015 , 12:00 PM

#20756

fanmail

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Quote:

Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

None would in his first year of arb

I didn't think that's what he was arguing. I agree arb will keep them much lower than that. I was talking on the free market.

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12-31-2015 , 02:12 PM

#20757

metsandfinsfan

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Quote:

Originally Posted by fanmail

I didn't think that's what he was arguing. I agree arb will keep them much lower than that. I was talking on the free market.

Orly

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperUberBob

Harvey will probably get above 20M/yr when he goes up for arbitration in 2016 assuming he stays healthy of course.

Syndergaard and DeGrom are up for arbitration in 2018 and will probably push for over 25M/year if they're still playing strong.

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12-31-2015 , 02:28 PM

#20758

fanmail

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Quote:

Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

Orly

Yes really. I was quoting captain luffy. You are quoting sub.

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12-31-2015 , 03:22 PM

#20759

OneOut

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Luffy

28 pitchers threw 200 innings last year or just less than 1 per team.

DeGrom threw 191 with 5.2 fWAR (11th). Only pitcher in top 14 with under 200 innings.

Harvey was 17th (4.4 fWAR) with just 189 innings.

Syndergaard threw just 150 innings and was 32nd in fWAR (3.1) among pitchers with 150 inning cutoff.

Add another 30 innings for Syndergaard in the minors and the post-season. You have 200 innings for all three as #1 pitchers.

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01-01-2016 , 03:13 PM

#20760

Captain Luffy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by fanmail

wat

They would all get 25M+ per year right now if they were FAs.

Hahaha!!!

None of them are getting anywhere near Greinke or Kershaw type money. Are you crazy?

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01-01-2016 , 03:21 PM

#20761

Captain Luffy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by OneOut

I'm more of an Eye test person than a Sabermatrician type of analyst. I want to see players excel well for a few seasons and then value them accordingly.

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01-01-2016 , 03:34 PM

#20762

mullen

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Luffy

Hahaha!!!

None of them are getting anywhere near Greinke or Kershaw type money. Are you crazy?

You're wrong, they would. If you want to argue they don't deserve it that's one thing, but the market absolutely pays them that right now. Again, look at the contracts given out this offseason.

Why don't they deserve Grienke type money? It's overwhelmingly likely Grienke will never have a season as good as 2015 again, and he's old. Giving young pitchers big contracts in their prime or better yet before their prime is great. Giving them out on the tail end of their prime isn't. It's very likely that all 3 of the Mets pitchers will deliver more value over the next ~6 years or so than Grienke simply because he's already 32.

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01-01-2016 , 04:12 PM

#20763

OneOut

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Luffy

I'm more of an Eye test person than a Sabermatrician type of analyst. I want to see players excel well for a few seasons and then value them accordingly.

That's fine, but you're talking about paying these guys and the people that do that now don't use the eye test anymore. The eye test probably severely over-rates Greinke because he had a career low BABIP and career high LOB%, which
is likely to push his ERA up at least a run next year.

You are also severely underestimating how much of premium teams put on youth these days. A slightly less proven player at 27 is going to get WAY more than a proven commodity at age 32.

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01-02-2016 , 02:34 PM

#20764

PyramidScheme

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http://m.mlb.com/cutfour/2015/12/26/...ly-rey-ordonez

This will be a fun game, everyone come up with additional reasons she's like Rey Ordonez

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01-05-2016 , 03:11 PM

#20765

OneOut

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How the hell did we lose Depodesta to the Cleveland Browns?

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01-06-2016 , 07:15 PM

#20766

Needle77

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Today is the best day of the past year. That's how I feel at least. My avatar is now 100 percent hall of fame.

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01-07-2016 , 03:14 PM

#20767

OneOut

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Until he goes in as a Dodger?

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01-07-2016 , 04:16 PM

#20768

OneOut

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Piazza just announced he's going in as a Met. Glad the Hall gave him that choice. Should ask Griffey why he didn't want to come to the Mets in '99 while he's sitting next to him.

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01-07-2016 , 07:11 PM

#20769

CohibaBehike

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Wasn't Griffey Dad hitting coach for Reds in 1999. That's probably why.

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01-07-2016 , 08:34 PM

#20770

metsandfinsfan

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Quote:

Originally Posted by OneOut

Piazza just announced he's going in as a Met. Glad the Hall gave him that choice. Should ask Griffey why he didn't want to come to the Mets in '99 while he's sitting next to him.

He only wanted to go to the Reds. Period

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01-11-2016 , 11:15 PM

#20771

ythelongface

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CohibaBehike

Wasn't Griffey Dad hitting coach for Reds in 1999. That's probably why.

He was and he also played for the Reds in the 70s.

[QUOTE=metsandfinsfan;49045449]He only wanted to go to the Reds. Period[/QUOTE
Affirmative. Griffey Jr and Larkin went to Moeller High School here in Cincinnati(Oddly enough a school primarily known for football prowess). That's all I know that's relevant to this...mostly :-)

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01-12-2016 , 03:26 PM

#20772

OneOut

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It was more a rhetorical question. Pretty common knowledge why he refused to go to Mets. Just saying Piazza should have asked him just to make him uncomfortable on stage. Barry Larkin also refused a trade to the Mets that year I think. And we ended up with Mike Bordick at SS for the stretch run and post-season. (Might have been the next year, not sure.)

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01-15-2016 , 03:46 PM

#20773

OneOut

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Considering there was some interesting debate about how arbitration works around here about a month ago:

Adam Rubin @AdamRubinESPN
Matt Harvey has settled with the Mets. $4.325 million

Adam Rubin @AdamRubinESPN
Ruben Tejada has also settled with the Mets. He gets $3.0 million.

Adam Rubin @AdamRubinESPN
The four players who have not yet settled are Lucas Duda, Jeurys Familia, Neil Walker and Jenrry Mejia.