Ok... now is it time to pull the plug on Tim Redding?

11-2, the carnage has almost ended.

didn't see this posted in this thread, if it has been my bad.

This pretty much sums up our season:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv344HLDjBU

boy oh boy this team is bad.

LOL @ the slo motion replays at the end of that vid

fmarts is priceless

This is just wrong. You have a floundering team that is unlikely to make the postseason right now, that can play either (a) a young player, who many believed at the beginning of the season was a prospect, who had a very solid, brief rookie season, and who has shown a few glimpses here and there that he might be a decent major league player, or (b) a re-tread who was out of baseball until last year, who has little upside and who is having a dreadful season. All of this on a team that right now is floundering, with such an awful spate of injuries that the situation calls much more for rolling the dice with the prospect and hoping that a substantial upside shows itself, as opposed to playing the re-tread whose upside is minimal at best.

The prospect should be playing because (a) his possible upside is greater than the re-tread's, even though the likelihood that the complete upside will ever show itself may be slim, and (b) you need to know where you stand with this guy, who you refused to trade in the offseason and who might be moveable this coming offseason for something of value if you decide that you do not want to continue along with him.

So, it is a big deal. It's a big deal for this season, and it's a bigger deal for next season.

It's easy to sit however many miles away you are from the team and spew stuff like "Murphy sucks" based on what you might read in a box score or see on ESPN. You appear to be a Giants' fan. Were you running around two months ago saying that Nate Schierholz sucks? Because if you were -- and you had plenty reason to say that based on the same metrics you're using to conclude that Murphy "sucks" -- the guy apparently has proved us wrong. He's gone from 25th man to cleanup hitter, and has been doing a pretty nice job since they finally gave him a shot. I'd like to see Murphy given a chance to play everyday, like the Giants finally gave to Schierholz.

omfg i lol'd so hard at that link

dude has a career ops under .800 over 259 games at the minor league level. a career ops of .750 over 127 games in mlb. this might be acceptable if he was a catcher or shortstop or something, but he plays corner of/1b and doesn't even appear to be able to do that particularly well. he has no upside. no one wants to trade for him.

i understand you guys got all excited because he ran hot as hell for 50 games last season, but he simply isn't good.

he is a better hitter than anyone else in our lineup ldo

i hate that your trolling but pretty much agree with most of this assessment.

Got to admit that Omar is doing the right thing by not panicking and making some crazy trade before the deadline. Hold on to the young guys and start F-Mart full time until Beltran comes back.

As long as Omar doesn't go "OMG he's Hispanic let me trade away white people!", I think we'll be fine. Or not worse than we are now.

i missed this before. i don't base anything on what i read in a box score or what i see on espn. i am smart enough to realize i am not an mlb scout.

schierholtz's minor league numbers kick the **** out of murphy's, and their mlb numbers are about the same. also it appears that nate might actually be really good at defense, which murphy isn't. and lol at nate ever being a real clean up hitter. i mean, the giants offense is pathetic so he might find himself in that slot at one point, but he has no business there.

nate's ceiling is still probably "average mlb player". he is on pace to be about halfway between an average player and a replacement level player this season. murphy's ceiling is lower. dude couldn't hit in the minors, and he can't hit now.

I bet Greinke was a very bad pitcher 3 years ago wasnt he? You never know what Murphy is going to be. The kid was hitting 300 at the beginning of the season. They just ****ed with his mind too much i think. He's not an outfielder. Of course he was bad defensively. He's a lot better in 1b. And he's not hitting right cause well... noone does. He's trying to do too much and he cant yet. We'll be able to tell how good he is in 3 years. Give him time. He wont be A-rod obviously but he can be a pretty good player

To be honest, this is more of an aspiration than an achieved goal; but it is getting easier every day.

I stand by my assessment that Murphy has a high ceiling, regardless of what the numbers say now.

I'm no scout and I base this entirely upon what I observe with my own eyes. He has a nice short swing, a good eye and seems so intense that he will do whatever it takes to improve. He's in a learning phase now and didn't really get that many at bats in the higher minors. I think he will learn to hit the inside pitch and, when that happens, will be a legit doubles-type hitter.

Even now, he's one of the few hitters on this team I enjoy watching bat I think he's been hitting a lot of hard outs and been somewhat unlucky.

In contrast, Tatis is excruciating to watch nowadays.

what kind of high ceiling does murphy have? He is Dave Magadan at best

Nobody is saying that the guy is a definite can't miss star in the making. You completely ignore that (a) he has shown flashes of ability at the plate and (b) there is absolutely no reason Tatis should be playing ahead of him at this point of this season, ever. Not every decision is "omg this guy's ops sucks therefore he sucks and shouldn't play blah blah blah". Find me the lists that had Casey McGeehee or Jake Fox ranked in anyone's top 10 prospects for the Brewers or Cubs.

The point about Schierholz is not that he does or does not have talent. It is that you can't on the one hand spew "Murphy sucks" based largely on what he has done while not spewing "Schierholz sucks" when they had put up similar major league numbers. I would not say that Schierholz sucks; to the contrary, I felt the Giants should have found a way to get his bat in the lineup sooner ahead of the junk they were throwing out there. I feel the same way about Murphy. He may very well fail, but as between him and Tatis, at this point there should not be a competition.

i agree, the issue is that tatis sux. so whether its murphy or tatis at first or evans or tatis in left then the answer should never be tatis.

That wouldn't be bad: Magadan's career batting avergae was .288, and on base percentage was .390. If that's his ceiling, he should be playing ahead of Tatis.

But I can't make such precise predictions. If you put a gun to my head, I think his ceiling is higher, a career .300 hitter (which means some seasons higher too) with a little more power than Magadan.

i dont see the power. he hasnt hit with power in the minors or the majors, and doesnt have the build for it.

and i agree he should be playing ahead of tatis. at this point, of course he should be playing every day against lefties and righties ... i think we have basically ruined his trade value already, so he either becomes a player or doesnt. we are done this season, so of course he should be playing

And while we're talking about playing the youngsters, I think it's time to let Niese pitch at least 3-4 turns in the rotation. Apparently, he's been doing well recently at AAA.

murphy will never be a power hitter. being an average to above average hitter is not an unreasonable expectation. his bb/k rates are very very good for a guy who really has no experience above AA especially since this year and last are his first go around in mlb. im pretty sure i said this early on in the season, i dont think .290/.360/.470 ish is a bad expectation from him

as for his defense, keep him as far away from the outfield as possible. he is an infielder and as long as delgado is out i like him at first. id like to see him try 2nd base at some point

for now im fine letting him stay there. if any starter goes down or nieve keeps sucking it up then id bring him up to try and keep redding out of the rotation

I don't understand this conclusion at all. He had 15 HRs in 480 ABs last year at age 23. Just as a frame of reference, Jose Reyes -- who I doubt anyone would consider a "power hitter" -- had 7 HRs in nearly 700 ABs at age 22, and jumped to 19 at age 23 (in 50 fewer ABs). There is no reason to say at this point that Murphy cannot be a 15-20 HR guy.

Murphy should be playing every day. I have no idea why Jerry played Tatis last night, unless the yeam is showcasing him. Perhaps a team actually does exist that would want a bench guy like Tatis. Hopefully that is the only reason that the Mets are playing him, because they are shopping him.


Pagan should return soon, so at least we will have a player who can play centerfield until Beltran returns, if he returns this season.

This team has fallen so far out of any race it has become hard to stay positive. Omar needs to seriously look at this team and see how he can stop it from getting worse. Yes we had injuries however every team gets injuries. I still blame Omar for this. When the Mets named him GM, I remember hearing he wanted complete autonomy and that he did a great job of improving the entire system. I have not seen that. The coaching staff stinks as does the medical staff.

Rumor has it that the Phillies have shown an interest in Halladay. The Phillies also have been rumored to want to see Pedro pitch one more time before signing him. I would like the Mets to get involved with the Halladay bidding just to drive the price up for the Phillies.

At what point does the team try and dump Livan and/or Redding and bring up Niece? When do we expect John Maine back? Does anyone wonder if we will even get Reyes or Beltran back this season?

I hope Omar stands pat with this team and if a good deal presents itself make it.

With that being said, I will still watch tonights game.