Lol Goodie

They didn't go 7-9 or win out and I cashed like 8000 in future tickets so uhhh what are you talking about?

But yeah, sorry for that totally unbridled and offensive pessimism (lol) that the Patriots might (gasp) go 10-6.

Even dumb teams won't give up a 2 for a supplemental 3. A supplemental 3 may be worth an actual 3 the year after, but the Pats don't trade all, or even over half, of their picks to future years, & as such, the most likely outcome is that they'll actually just draft someone there.

that's fine, but there is real tangible value in getting to pick a year early.

we can quibble over how much that's actually worth but clearly a pick this year > a pick next year

Clearly the compensation isn't the issue here (we can all agree it was minimal).

Yes...but I think we can also agree that the reason BB traded Collins wasn't because he wanted a supplemental 3rd round pick one year early & there has to be some underlying issue that led to this.

There's also got to be some reason he was traded to the Browns, the team in the league that could use 8 games of Jamie Collins the least.

Pray Cleveland get a compensation 3rd coz if not its a 4th which pats lose for deflategate which means they basically get nothing in return

Collins is in a contract year it is on his best interest to perform well. Trade makes no sense at all. If Collins is playing poorly or not following directions, bench him. Was he threatening to sit out games himself? Distracting the locker room? really perplexing.

Don't overthink this Collins thing. BB at worst is close to indifferent on Collins vs Roberts for the rest of the year.

yeah I agree. it certainly doesn't feel like moving up a year is worth giving up half a year of Jamie.

So surrogate (?) Lombardi is claiming Collins hasn't been playing well and going off script too much. Anyone notice this? I haven't seen many games this year, watching most on fast forward.

He says they have a 13 win floor every year and they haven't won 13 games since 2011. Color me not super impressed. I mean he's closer to right than his polar opposite that appears on here from time to time, but I'm not really impressed with blind pom pom waving masquerading as analysis.

Just saw the Curran video and remember now that yeah he did screw up vs Owen Daniels twice, I am guessing that BB feels team is better without Collins. When players screw up in big games (welker) BB seems to take that **** personal. Still feel like it was a fu to trade him to Cleveland, there had to be better deal out there -at least get back an expiring player that could contribute.

The critical question to answer is how good is Jamie Collins compared to his replacement?

Was Collins really playing as one of the best defensive players in the league this year?

michael lombardi ✔ @mlombardifoxtv
Not surprised by the Pats trading Colllins. Not been playing well at all they need to get the defense fixed. This will get their attention
9:34 AM - 31 Oct 2016


michael lombardi ✔ @mlombardifoxtv
Collins on the second play of the game does whatever he wants and Bills gain 28 yards. Been happening all year. It was not going to continue
9:45 AM - 31 Oct 2016

I guess trading him to Cleveland is a hedge that, even if Bill is wrong and he is a top LB, it won't come back to bite you because the Browns aren't going anywhere

Now this is interesting. I remember the 1st round pick, if the Patriots traded for another 1st rounder, the NFL would take whichever one was higher. You're right, might work the same for the 4th rounder, in which case the Patriots just keep their own 4th at the end of the round.

That said, the compensatory compensation formula seems to have been reverse engineered pretty well, so I think they have some confident it'll be a 3rd for Alex Mack.

The Patriots own 4th would come before a supplemental 4th. Don't really understand that whole line of conversation.

Also, if Jamie Collins isn't better than his backup, you assume he's at least better than his backups backup?

This is going to sound like sour grapes, since I didn't say anything before the trade, but I swear to God, I was recently thinking that Collins, one of my favs, really hadn't done much this year. I didn't bring it up because I knew he had missed games with injuries, and the team was winning handily, so I'd be patient.

BTW, I **LOVE** Lombardi. I'm beating the point spread this year for the first time in my life, and I give his analysis most of the credit.

Of course your not impressed. I'm the only one that calls you out on your horrible predictions and analysis. And I'm right most of the time, and your wrong most of the time. Jealously naturally ensues.

SI's Greg Bedard indicated on twitter that he filed a column to air tomorrow on the reasons behind the trade

As always and as most of SE does early and often, lol goodie.

Hey man, I have no idea why you've taken such offense to predicting a 10.5 win o/u team might go 10-6 (they won't, the offensive line and non Brady QBs are better than I feared even though the defense is a bit worse than I expected/only average), but it might be time to go work on those anger/persecution issues or realize that The Fan isn't a documentary or instructional video. At least maybe with some work you can wait for an actual 8-8 prediction or something to get upset about. Or actually have a track record of correct predictions at least before rage posting about whatever.

I'm talking about the penalties because of Deflategate, not the Patriots supplemental 4th for losing a free agent.

They were penalized:
2016 1st
2017 4th

It was said at the time that if the Patriots traded for another 2016 1st rounder, that they would lose the higher of the 2 1st rounders (theirs, or the 2nd one they traded for).

This Cleveland trade of Collins is either for Cleveland's supplemental 3rd that they'll get for losing Alex Mack, or if they don't get that pick then the Patriots get Clevelands 4th round pick.

It's possible that if the same rules apply to the 2017 4th as applied to the 2016 1st, if the Patriots get Cleveland's 4th round pick, that pick would be taken due to Deflategate, and the Patriots would then keep their own 4th rounder at the end of the round. That's like a 30 pick swing.

I don't know if the same stipulations are on the 4th as were on the 1st. I'm sure the Patriots have thought about it. Again though, they may feel pretty certain the Browns are getting a 3rd for Mack.

Yeah, sorry, I missed the part about it being the actual Browns 4th & not the Browns 1st supplemental pick available.

That was the logical connection point I was missing. Forgot to come back in & correct myself.

Although I really do think you're wrong a great deal of the time, my lord are you easy to troll Gambool. So. Easy.

dem boyz on twitter be saying it is a 18 pick ne ways.