Please go back to not elaborating on your opinions.

Or you could, you know, refute them.

Why are you quoting me like I disagree? I agree with you, line play like today and this team will miss the playoffs. It wasnt competitive on either side of the ball. The reason for hope on OL is the tackles were the killers today and they have a good track record, there's probably not help coming in the middle. Manning is better and has better weapons around him, so not a shocker he looked better.

The reason for hope on the DL is they have a first rounder there and some guys out. Joe Vellano sucked last year and will suck this year. I'd much rather go 4-3 as well.

The AFC East still pretty much sucks though so you are wrong there, still lots of room for error. It's not panic time yet, but unlike last years where people worried over nothing I think there is real reason for concern. I won't be very surprised if they lose at Minn next week.

I also don't think Brady lost a step this year, he's still very good but he hasn't been a top three QB for a couple of years now and the deep ball accuracy likely ain't coming back enough for a return there.

I just quoted the line that mattered, had nothing to do with disagreeing with you.

Brady has never had elite deep ball accuracy, but watching him attempt a toss down the sidelines is sad to watch. The Pats literally ran the same play twice at the end of the first half, and it was a fail all around. But he also doesn't have anyone with elite separation ability to make him look good on those throws.

Brady is ridiculously accurate down the seams but just don't have any touch on the sidelines. It has plagued this team for years.

I'm not panicking but if you think we roll to another division title, prep yourself. It's going to be a struggle. The idea that we are competing with Denver only doesn't look so good right now. I think we are competing with the Jets and Dolphins for the division and a chance to get homefield.

I wouldn't be so upset at Brady looking average if Manning still didn't look awesome. That's partly team construction, which falls on BB, our unofficial GM. But the "Brady > Manning" argument gets harder to make every single day. I don't even make it anymore, and apparently neither does letsgambool.

Salva and Gambool. I understand that if the lines play like they did yesterday, this team is going to have problems. However, I have no idea how either of you, after watching the NFL for so many years, think that ONE game gives you any evidence that this type of play will continue. It MIGHT, but it absolutely doesn't have to. Every single year since this team became a contender (or any team, for that matter) they've had games in which important pieces have played terrible. ONE game is just not enough evidence to draw any conclusion.

It's a potential concern, sure. But not a real concern, YET.

This game was worse. Usually when the Pats get their ass kicked its because of turnovers. They went +1 and still lost by two scores. Never happened to BB/Brady before.

The reason for concern is the fact that the worry about the team was that the OL might be hot garbage and the OL showed up and played like ****. Sure, it could be an aberration and, like I said up above, the tackles sucking would be pretty weird, but it's far from a guarantee the line is going to get fixed given the personnel on the interior. Add in a front seven that can't stop inside runs, another weakness that plagued them all of last year, and its worrisome. Might be they don't have the horses and talent on the interior to make a run this year.

Sure, I'd still bet they win the division as of today Salvas annual warning aside,but being 60 percent or w/e to beat the trash in the AFC East isn't really what we are looking for this season.

All very fair. I probably shouldn't have included you in my post as you've been reasonable. Salva's just being Salva. And no matter how many times he does it, I still feel the need to correct him every single time. I'm actually surprised that there aren't more Salva's here as he's a perfect representation of the typical New England fan.

As bad as Salva's whole sky is falling stance can be, your everything is awesome stance can be equally as bad.

When did I say everything is awesome? I see that there are potential concerns but they're only potential right now because it was ONE f'ing game.

I'm an optimist when it comes to the Pats and not for nothing but who can blame me? Everyone should be an optimist when it comes to the Patriots if you've even remotely followed them for the last 13 years.

As I've said in the past, the people that aren't optimistic and don't appreciate this time as a Pats fan are either 1.) Miserable people who are just naturally pessimistic about everything or 2.) Became fans of the team in 2001. If you lived through the 90's with this team, it should be impossible to not appreciate what we have.

Agree 100%. The sky is not falling.

Wilfork, Mayo, Hightower & Gronk all showed more than a bit of rust. That should improve as time goes on.

The O-line will be a work in progress. I'm more concerned with no Scar than with no Mankins. Cannon looked a bit lost at G.

I think Reavis showed a bit of rust, too. last year at tampa he played in a zone-first system that didn't leave him on an island as much as he was with the Jets.
I'm not convinced he didn't expect deep help on the Wallace double-move, but without an all-22 view I can't be certain. Even the play near the end of the 1st half where it looked like he was beat bad by a receiver going across the middle didn't look bad - the one replay I saw made me think they were in zone and he was chasing because his area was vacant, but I could be way off on that.

Brady missed a number of deep sideline throws last season, so I can agree with Salva that's a reason for concern, but that's also never been his strong suit any way. The throws like that he made yesterday looked forced anyway. he wasn't missing wide open deep balls.

Chandler Jones has to watch his technique. 2 RTPs in one game means the zebras will have their eyes on him.

On the plus side, Brady says he shaved the beard. That should solve everything.

7-9 imo

Id say that's still a pretty pessimistic case barring a rash of injuries, but I do think something like that is in play for the first time in years.

How can that be? They've improved their team in every category (skill wise), other than Offensive line (and I'm not even convinced that they haven't improved there yet). They went to the AFC championship with a lesser team last year, how the hell is 7-9 in play because of one bad game (really one bad half) in Miami?

Oh you right, 14-2 then.

Pessimistic case would be offensive line headed by a concussion prone tackle, three 30 year olds, and some retreads sucks+DL headed by Joe Vellano, a fat 32 year old coming off of Achilles surgery, a 6th round pick, and a street free agent sort of sucks+some age related decline from Brady+Gronk not really at full speed first year off of ACL surgery+Dobson not emerging due to injury/whatever+4-7 or w/e in one score games vs. 7-4 in one-score games last year.

Pessimistic, but nothing really crazy in there. Your question doesn't really make sense as you are just assuming this year's team is better than last year's team. Yeah, if they're better they won't go 7-9 obviously.

14-2 is infinitely more feasible than 7-9.

Goodie, how about this. If they go 14-2, I send you $1000. If they go 7-9, you perma-exile from SE.

LOL 7-9, they're at least 9-7 even if Brady goes down. One loss vs a division rival on the road where they usually have trouble and people are either jumping off the Tobin or mocking the team.

Come talk after week 17.

I'd bet a sizeable chunk on 7-9 vs 14-2. 8 more losses is more likely than only one more loss.

The team should be better, talent wise, then they were at the end of last season.

Defensely, Revis obviously. Mayo back. Collins hopefully improving. Wilfork (not sure how much of an upgrade he is but I think he is an upgrade) back. We get Browner the fifth game of the season.

Offensively, Weapons should be better even though they didn't show it in the second half yesterday. Gronk back (he was clearly shaking off rust yesterday), Wright might have a nice role. Vereen is healthy. Lafell should be an upgrade over what they had in that spot last year (which was basically nothing).

The offensive line is the only spot that looks like it "might" be worse from a talent level but that's not set in stone.

One half, guys. ONE F'ING HALF!!!! Chill the hell out.

I'll book this if your serious. Are you serious?

Let's also not forget that we gifted the Dolphins their first touchdown. People tend to forget what happens early but this game should have been 20-3 at the half.

I worded it wrong, should be 7-9 or worse, but yeah I'll book this. I don't really want you to leave the forum despite the fact that you annoy the **** out me sometimes and I hope I lose the 1000.

Booked. Yeah, I assumed 7-9 or worse.