If you think he shouldn't be #1, fine, then you think the formula is flawed.

To suggest that FO had him #1 because "the media loves Brady" is asinine. I repeat. You are a failure.

Also, that might be the worst argument for Brady not being #1 ever.

obv that is the way I feel or I don't make the post about Welker. Although, I think Welker's stats are better than they ought to be because of players around him, yes Brady. As evidenced by Julian Edelman's output last game. But.... I do think one person is underrated in said argument as well, and I have stated this on more than 1 occasion...

Stop dodging the fact you blamed Brady being #1 on the media.

I do believe the media hangs on his nuts. No biggie they hang on Favre's as well and I like Favre just don't like Brady. It is what it is but at least I keep it real. I just think Brady is a little overrated that is all. I don't care about that formula. System, bottom line. How do you think Edelman came in and put up the output he did, also system. And another great WR to open things up underneath. One reason why your RB's are all productive as well.

Maybe everbody is so productive because of Brady. I remember when Bledsoe was the Patriots QB and Parcells used to get so pissed off at him because he couldn't throw an accurate screen pass. He used to make the receiver have to make a circus catch and of course there was never any yac. Brady puts all that short stuff right on the money, in stride so his receivers have the opportunity for yac. Just one example of why he is so good.

Also, because he is able to stand in the pocket and wait and make accurate throws. But it is all Brady. And Bledsoe sucked.

Very disingenuous of you to imply that I think Bledsoe sucked. Not the case at all. I credit three people with saving the franchise. Parcells, Kraft and Bledsoe. They brought credibilty back to the worst franchise in the league.

But we were never going to go any further than respectable with Bledsoe. Brady and Belichick have taken us to that next level. If I praise Brady, it doesn't mean I don't appreciate what Bledsoe did for us because I do.

I agree with all of this except for the Parcells part. I really, really hate that guy and I know it's irrational (I know being irrational is so unlike me) but I credit nothing to that piece of crap. I just don't think he's very good and I'll argue vehementaly that he's the most overrated person to ever have anything to do with the NFL.

But I was a fan of Bledsoe and I certainly agree that he did a lot for the Pats. Kraft will be my hero till the day I die.

Goodie, many Patriot fans have an axe to grind with Parcells because of the way he left the team, but you can't deny that the guy knows his football. To say that you just don't think he's very good and the most overrated is as you say irrational.

All you have to know to realize how good the guy was, is to look at what he did with the Jets. Coming off 6-10 under Carroll and 3-13 and 1-15 under Kotite, he transformed the team into instant winners, going 9-7 and 12-4 his first two years.

When he was hired to coach the Patriots, they were an awful organization. They had a season ticket base of around 20,000. In the few days after his hire, thousands of season tickets were sold. And he delivered on the field too, getting them to the Super Bowl in short order.

And his press conferences were must see TV. I really liked the guy and still do.

But those super bowl wins were because of a very good defense. Not saying Brady sucks, I am however saying he is overrated. Look what Cassel did with the same team. It wasn't that big of a drop off. Further, look at Brady's numbers prior to Moss, then the first season with the (possibly, and when he wants to be) best WR ever. His numbers were astronomical. If it was all Brady, then he would have Manning like numbers every season, not just a one year wonder.

I am not taking anything away from your team, you have a great coach, and have had a good team. I just personally don't like players on your team or your coach. I do however think their is some overratedness going on with this team. After all, this is a team game.

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bacats, do you believe that the reason FO has Brady at #1 is because the media loves him. Just answer that question.

So even they disagree with their own conclusion of said system?

I wonder how much the last few weeks of the season hurt Brees and Manning in said statistic.

YOU DIDN'T ANSWER THE ****ING QUESTION.

yes it was. i dont think brady is the #1 qb in the league, but theres no way hes any worse than #3

obviously FO's stats are imperfect, they only give you a general idea of the entire picture, and they are much much better for evaluating teams/units than individual players.

actually i have no problem saying that FOs stats suck pretty bad for evaluating individual players, pretty much all stats really

smiglet, shush. you're just giving the troll more opportunities to dodge the actual question.

I shouldn't get into this argument again since I've had it so many times but I think the only thing that Parcells is good at doing is making good decisions as to what francises to go to and when to leave those francises. When he came to the Pats, yes, they sucked but he didn't make a lot of the personel decisions that turned the team around. Hence the quote "you should be able to buy the groceries" when he left. I believe that he didn't even agree with bringing Bledsoe here but I could be wrong about that.

Granted I don't know a lot about the personnel changes that were made with the Jets when Parcells came to town or what hand Parcells had in those changes.

The fact still remains that he hasn't won a championship without Belichick and hasn't stayed long enough with any francise since the Giants to see any real success.

Also, the fact that he talked about leaving in the two weeks leading up to the Green Bay Super Bowl makes him a POS in my eyes and someone that should never hold a head coaching position. A head coach should NEVER do that, no excuses.

I think the factors that led to teams being turned around under Parcells have very little to do with Parcells himself.

I think the argument that Brady had a great year in 07 is an argument FOR his greatness. He didn't have the weapons before 07 and still had very good numbers. He was then given the weapons and had one of the greatest seasons a QB has ever had. You don't really think it's all Manning either here. I mean you don't think having Harrison had quite a bit to do with Manning's numbers?

As Big O would say, your making my point.

Harrison hasn't been with the team this season, and last season as well really. Also, Dallas Clark is having a phenomenal season and he sure isn't elite, not to mention Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie who is a rookie played really well or maybe they had a good QB. In '07 Brady had an elite WR come help him and a veteran guy. It isn't like he did what he did with rookies and 1st year guys. Again, you can't take anything away from the guy he knows how to win. But it seems as though all you Pats fans are the same, Brady is the ultimate, has one of the best WR in history (I mean srsly, throw deep into triple coverage and he makes a one handed grab) to help him, and all you can say always about Manning is that, he has the weapons, they make him better is what I get from those statements. But not so for Brady's case. Moss's coming didn't make Brady better? That is a joke.

How about Brees? I suppose, he has just kickass WR's everywhere so that is why he is so good. Maybe he has a bunch of avg. to better than avg. WR's but he is so good that is why they all are getting in on the action. If I could throw the ball 60 yds, I could stand behind the Pats line (as I have stated in an earlier post that I think the Oline is very good) and toss one up to Moss or 7 yds away to Welker to get a bunch of YAC. How much of the yardage is Welkers? Moss has 14 TD's the 2nd guy is 5. IND's WR's 10,10,7. Yardage is skewed like this as well. Moss has 1200 yds where after that it is 400, Colts have 4 guys at 676+.

Last season for the Pats looks much of the same for this season only yardage isn't as much. Welker, Moss, then Faulk (whom is a pimp imo) with just under 500. After Moss, 3 TD's is 2nd. Even in '07 it still the same, Moss 23 TD's, Welker 8. After that, there is a 6 and 5. Yardage, the 3rd best WR was Gaffney with 600+ then it drops to 400. Even in Manning's record breaking season he had 3 1000 yd WR's and all of them have 10 TD's. And it isn't like Stokley is off making some big noise in DEN.

I do agree that pre Moss/Welker the WR core was pretty gross, but still even with Manning having his one stud, he is able to distribute and get others involved in the offense, where clearly here in NE, it is lacking doing so. This to me tells me how good Moss/Welker actually is, also the coaches for recognizing this and using said players in the fashion they do.

alot of coaches say they are going to leave or this is their last game coaching... etc.

As you can see I haven't dodged it, you just think I did. Yes, I think the media has a love affair with him. But why not, he is a good looking dude who puts himself out there with the supermodels, and magazine covers. Play on playa.

i cant let this slide. parcells is a general management god, and that really isnt an exaggeration at all

By hiring Parcells the Pats sent out a message loud and clear that they weren't ****ing around anymore and were out to kick ass in the NFL. Parcells also brought along a bunch of vets who wanted to play for him. It changed the franchise.

Hey look. Bacats dodging the actual question again. What a shock.


I asked you a very specific question, whether you think the reason FO had Brady at #1 was because the media loves him too much. You have yet to answer this for reasons unknown.

Yeah Parcells is a gigantic douche, but the Pats went from perennial cellar-dwellers to a team that at least wasn't a laughingstock. I give him that much credit.