Welp, this thread has suddenly got exciting. We got excited about the Broncos losing and handed it right back to them. The Cincy loss keeps us in play for a bye but we kind of suck.

Still 50/50 or so to get the bye. Get the bye a decent amount of time just beating Buffalo (need Ravens over Bengals and Chiefs over Colts basically)

Patriots Nation: where winning your division by a comfortable margin and earning a first-round bye (which is what would happen if the season ended today) earns your team a glowing endorsement of "we suck" from your fans.

I wonder how many of the other division leaders have their fans using the phrase "we suck" this week?

EDIT TO ADD: Oops, should have checked the standings before posting, as I'm sure CHI and PHL fans are saying it, too.

AFCW, AFCN, AFCS, NFCS, NFCN, NFCE

Be honest, Salva. How many times in the last 15 years have you actually thought the Pats were a good team?

You probably weren't even on board in 07 until the 13th or 14th game of the season.

What chances would you have given the 01 team to win the SB? If you were a Ravens fan, what chances would you have given them last year?

You drive me crazy. The Pats are a top ten team in this league without any doubt whatsoever and likely top 7 or 8. In what universe is that sucking?

Our strengths are in not turning the ball over, not committing penalties, QB, and halftime adjustments. Everything else right now is just not that great but not that terrible either.

As I see it, one of our major weaknesses is the offensive playcalling. If i can call out our play 60% of the time, certainly people being paid to break us down can do it as well. Has anyone else noticed that we aren't using our high tempo offense hardly at all anymore? I'd love to know why this is. Also we clearly need someone big who can actually catch. I don't think Boyce is going to cut it. Dobson hasn't been very reliable. Hoo Man had that one great catch but hes just not getting open enough.

Our defense is below avg against the run, and avg against the pass. Id rather it be this way than the other way around though. Fletcher, Cole, and Hightower are all major liabilites for us when they are on the field. I don't trust any of them to make the right decisions or to have the natural ability to make a big time play when we need it.


There are still some scenarios where we miss the playoffs, albeit slim ones. The major key is that I dont think we will lose to Buffalo hardly ever. That win will get us in if we suck it up against Baltimore as well.

The problem is Im not sure its an average pass defense right now.

Football Outsiders has the Pats playing a good game on pass defense once in the last five games through week 14 and that was heavily weather aided. I dont think yesterday is going to grade out that well either. I dont know if its the secondary being beat up, having to compensate schemewise to shore up the run with the front seven decimated (run defense has been better) bad matchups or what, but the pass defense has gone back to being horrible the last month.

Its problem going forward. Im hoping a combination of better player health and having some scheme tricks up their sleeve for the playoffs improve things, but its far from a given.

Offensive playcalling is generally good IMO with a few exceptions. Given what they have to work with right now. I think they have done a good job. Im glad they ditched (for now) that play where the guard has to pull and pass block (basically an auto sack if the defense guesses it right) and I wish theyd stick with the run a bit more in the red zone (particularly with Blount who has very, very rarely been losing yards). They basically have no faith in being able to throw the ball downfield in long yardage situations and call plays accordingly.

Hard game to go up tempo yesterday with the heat and a patchwork o-line. Really exposes the defense if you cant put TDs on the board.

There is no shame in not being a great team right now considering all the injuries and murder raps. Most other teams would have folded long ago. I'm going to keep my hopes up but not be surprised if they don't go very far this postseason.

Completely agree, happy to root for this team even if they lose out.

how many years think brady has?

Thanks for nothing, Lions!

I don't think the Ravens would have been eliminated with a loss last night, right? IOW they would have been playing for their lives this weekend anyways

in some way them winning may have been a good thing since it means they might have a meaningful game vs Cinci in Week 17

Win gives the Ravens a little more to aspire for now, they control their own destiny in the division. They wouldnt have been eliminated before, just lost control of their own destiny.

Sort of hard to say what we want now, depends how absolutely confident you are in the Pats beating Buffalo.

If you're not gonna read my post why bother replying?

edit: You also like to ignore David Givens, but it's irrelevant to what I was talking about

Not sure what capone0's interest is in this thread other than to lecture us dumb Pats fans as to how much better Peyton is than Brady and how we should all feel really, really bad for thinking otherwise or even that it's even close - maybe it's an SE reg outreach program or something

LOL, this guy gets it. If your team is not named "Seahawks" you think your team has major flaws right now heading into the playoffs. That was my point. I need to learn that this is not a gameday thread where I can express hyperbole.

Even worse we locked them both up at very genius (I championed both at the time) contracts with tons of guaranteed money. Hernandez alone is costing us like 7-8 mil in dead money. Gronk is a wild card right now. They uncharacteristically made these huge deals to these guys well before their rookie deals were up and if they don't pan out long-term it really bites the Pats in the ass.

I'm sorry my criticism negates the way you think how I truly feel about this team, or the knowledge of it.

They are a very good team right now, but suffering so many injuries to top players it's hard for me to consider them major contenders. Is that crazy, Goodie?

Come to think of it, Chim is only here to troll for the same reason, but the GOAT plays for his team, so he has playoff reasons to troll. Capone0's troll campaign is purely SE hypothetical... or perhaps in his mind, determination.

Of course that's not crazy. However, that's not what you said. You said they suck. Pretty huge difference between "they suck" and "they're not major contenders".

Goodie you quote him with actual quotation marks that he said they suck when he actually said they kind of suck, which I took to mean they are really just an average team. I know you have this obsession to try and "win" every internet argument (at least on 2plus2) but don't quote a guy incorrectly to make your points.

You're right. I should have quoted him correctly. I suppose you can interpret "kinda suck" anyway you want but two things:

I've never heard anyone say "kinda suck" and not mean that they are worse than average.

HOWEVER,

Even if you do actually believe that he meant they're average, they're clearly not. Average would be the 16th best team in the league. They are at least 6 spots better than that (and I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone that disagrees) and more likely 8 or so spots ahead of that.

So, yes, I do like to win every argument (I don't understand why anyone would argue and NOT want to win) but in this case, you made it pretty easy.

Salva though the '12 team might lose the division title to the Jets, so I think there's some revisionist history going on here.

Tough spot for the Pats Sunday, although I expect they'll be in the game right down to the last possession.

Crazy thing is that even if they lose they will probably go into the last week with a decent chance at a bye (and possibly a chance at missing outright).

Dobson looks like he will get back this week. Big boost to the offense, jump balls to EdelGOAT arent ideal red zone plays.

Goodie, they are clearly average right now, every week is a death struggle even against bad teams, barely getting by the likes of Cleveland on a miracle finish.

Huh? I have no idea what you're talking about here.

I'm ok if we lose this game. We're pretty out-manned and it just doesn't look good on paper. Dobson and KT being back is a boost, but they have to become legit red zone targets this week, because that's our major weakness with Gronk gone. But we'll still fight our way into the tournament and maybe we'll just go on a Flacco/Eli hot streak and take down the mighty Seahawks in a blizzard bowl. I dunno. One can dream?

PS. It's kind of funny that EdelGOAT has rejected Brady's "Minitron" nickname, and probably considers it derogatory:

http://nesn.com/2013/12/julian-edelm...wide-receiver/

"I ain't no mini-anything!"

Edelman has beasted this season, I think he's on pace for 100 receptions? If they low-ball him and let him walk I have lost all patience with BB and the FO. Gotta keep him for a reasonable deal. Can't keep forcing Brady to deal with this crap. Pay the premium for continuity with your HoF QB, ffs. Sometimes makes me wonder if BB and the FO are such machines that they don't value Brady as much as we do. I know it sounds crazy, but the evidence can suggest otherwise.