I totally get your point about over-reacting to the last bad game or great game whatever the case may be. But my point is that, although they will certainly be in the playoffs and probably even win their first playoff game, their defense is not at a level where they can compete for the AFC title and ultimately the Super Bowl.

They barely lost to Indy, and yet they won't compete for the AFC title. Makes sense.

You know as well as I that teams coast when they are 10-0. Patriots caught them a little flat and jumped out to a big lead. Then not being able to put that game away after being up by so much makes me feel worse about our prospects not better.

Toro, you seem very reasonable and I respect your posts but this is just typical Boston pessimism. There is no way that the Colts were coasting when they played the Pats. No way at all. That game was VERY important to them because it would have let the Pats into the number 1 slot race for the playoffs. The Pats would have been one game behind the Colts if they won and had a real shot at the number one seed.

So, your saying that getting beat 35-7 would have been better than what happened? They outplayed the Colts IN Indy and clearly will be able to do that again in the playoffs. That game made me feel MUCH better about the Pats chances of winning a super bowl.

I agree with Toro here. How do you KNOW that they will CLEARLY be able to outplay the Patriots again? There is no justification for saying that, but you act like it is a given thing. The Colts are one of the most deadly teams to play in the league, with the G.O.A.T quarterback at the helm, and will be playing @ home in January.

The Patriots defense gave up that game, and yet you are still confident they could handily whoop them again? At best for the Patriots, it would be a shoot out game, and this is not the 2007 Patriots, nor could these Patriots match up with the Colts.

winning a super bowl?
You guys to need to focus on the division 1st, big game this week

I cannot believe Goodie just pretty much said what I was going to say. LOL at the Colts "coasting" into a game against the Pats.

They may not have been playing to their potential, and there's a good chance they're a bit better than NE, but if Indy and NE played at Indy again right now, the true line would be a couple points less than a TD, and that would be their toughest matchup in the playoffs.

I love how we wouldn't be having this conversation if the Pats had converted that first down. That conversion really doesn't change the actual ability of either team, but if the Pats convert and win, everybody still probably has NE as the team to beat in the AFC.

Funny thing is that the Pats DID actually convert that first down.

I don't KNOW that they will clearly outplay the Colts again, but I do KNOW that they can because they did. Pretty easy logic there.

When did I ever say that they could handily whoop them? That's just nonsense. These Patriots can't match up with the Colts? You do realize they did, right? Your just being ridiculous.

Well of course the line would be a couple of points less then a TD, it would open up at probably Colts -2. They are both talented teams, ranked 1-2 in the AFC, and will always be a good matchup as long as Brady/Manning are there.

I know the conversion doesn't really show the abilities of the teams. But I disagree that everyone would have NE as the team to beat in AFC. I, along with many other people, have the Colts.

Oy, not this conversation again.

Wording was wrong. You said " clearly will be able to do that again" WRT outplaying them. I took that as you saying the Pats would have no problem with the Colts.

And it's not really being ridiculous. If you are told 'Indy/NE will be a shootout" you are going to be confident against the Colts?

When I called you ridiculous, I was speaking about your comment that the Pats can't match up with the Colts. They did match up well and outplayed them. Pretty standard logic there.

When I say "clearly will be able to do that again" that means (if it makes it easier for you) that they "clearly have the ability to do that again". This is a foolish argument. I don't think anyone thought that the Pats didn't outplay the Colts enough to win so I don't think anyone thinks that the Pats don't have a very good chance to beat them the next time. And the Colts are considered pretty convincingly to be at least the second best team in the NFL and the best team in the AFC. Therefore, the Pats are super bowl contenders. What part of this can you really argue?

Well for one, the Patriots defense is not a superbowl defense. It is not a late January defense. This isn't freaking out over one game against the Saints; it's as a season. They choked a large lead to the Colts, they absolutely blew against the Saints. Sure you can say "oh they are the 2 best teams/offenses in the league" but the simple fact is, you would be playing the best teams in the league during the playoffs.

The Patriots also have yet to beat a playoff team during the regular season so far. What exactly is all the hype about the Patriots? Because they 'hung with the Colts?' Going by that same measure, they got stomped by the Saints, so why can't we say they just aren't a playoff/superbowl calibur team.

We can also argue how when the Patriots have played a playoff team, they've lost. 3/3 in that regard. What has their best game been this year? the Falcons? Ravens?

Wait, you know I said at Indy right? Otherwise you're pretty much saying NE is a bit better than Indy in the books eyes.


If you meant on a neutral field, I agree. But this just goes to show that Toro is wrong by saying "they won't compete" for the AFC. When you're a couple points worse than the best team in the division, and possibly better than the 2nd best team (not counting Pats ldo), then you clearly have a real and imaginable shot at winning the conference.


Fair enough. After this last game, I'd probably feel the same way too.

The defense is what it is. Many up and downs, and overall I'd say slightly below average. Who knows what we can do against the Colts again. I'd like to think they go Indy and beat them, but wouldn't count on that.

Let's see what the o-line can do when they are all healthy. We're down to what? A second stringer at one position and a third stringer at another + Vollmer is out right? Eghh....once they're all back the offense should be much better. Also, Slater must really be sucking at practice because how TF does he get beat out for playing time by two former college QBs and Aiken? Also, where is Tate? We really need a legit 3rd WR + Taylor and the o-line back to be unstoppable on offense again. I'm still in shock that they let both Washington and Gaffney walk after last season with no proven 3rd WR.

I would consider a healthy Pitt. tougher matchup than NE, but history could make me wrong there.

I guess with this logic we can put the Chiefs as contenders as they beat Pitt. right?

I'd love to be wrong.

any team that has a good passing attack and good secondary is going to give the pats trouble

Huh? I was saying Indy would be NE's toughest matchup in the playoffs if they played.

This was one of my fears going into the game. But the Pats actually have an underrated ground game, and I think after falling behind they just tried relying on the pass. Against NO, you need to be able to keep it close, and then just run all day. They had no opportunity to do that once NO grabbed a decent lead.

This is actually good logic. Why did you use logic when I was trying to be irrationally supportive of my team as a homer? Nevertheless, I still do feel as though as long as we have Brady/Bellichick we have a chance at winning the superbowl.

And we beat the Ravens that are most likely a playoff team.

Oh.

Also, did you ever think that although they "outplayed" IND that they made adjustments and that is why they were able to comeback. I think the 2nd game wouldn't be as close.

Well, hopefully we'll see.

Maybe, but if it makes you feel better I also believe that if the Saints got to play them again, it wouldn't be a blowout. Yes, your defense looked shakey, but Drew Brees looked phenomenal. Although a pass rush would help that out. Even though there were some breakdown in coverages, there were spots where Brees threw perfect passes when coverage was pretty good.

The Saints were super ready to play this game and prove they are who we think they are.