great. why would he (or we) care that you think this? he's just offering his opinion. do you expect him to stop having an opinion?

what fun would sports be if no one had an opinion, jeez

opinions are like *******s. every dumbass alive has an opinion. why should i care about yours?

but no seriously, i'm ****ing sick and tired of all the ****ing scouts on this forum. can anyone back up any of their goddamn opinions with anything substantial other than "well it think?" no? well **** off then

my god phildo, this is the vikings fan thread on 2+2

yeah and i have recently decided to cut homers some slack. i've actually been posting a lot less in these forums altogether.

but vix is not a vikings homer and i'm still gonna sling some vitriol at non homers when i get the chance. they don't have a built in excuse.

so, then, you prefer, like "TJ is a 54th percentile QB because of his DVOA in 4 games in 2008." i don't think you really believe that, but if you do, you don't get what numbers mean. numbers are borne of the game, not the other way around.

but then you are the guy who believes so strongly in 370 carries and 100 pitches, right?

yes i do. i agree that he probably got lucky last year, but i also think it's likely he improved b/c he is a young qb. sage rosenfels on the other hand is what he is at this point and that is a qb who can make plays but turns the ball over a lot. he was dynamic, but mediocre nonetheless, and that was with the luxury of throwing to andre johnson.

never said an int was the only error a qb make, but it's the biggest one and rosenfels does it a lot. do you think he brings enough to the table elsewhere to alleviate his turnovers issues? i wonder if that will remain the case when he doesn't have the luxury of throwing to andre johnson and owen daniels


edit: i'm not just looking at td/int, but it's the only thing i talked about b/c i was referencing turnovers. do you want to talk about net yards per attempt? adjusted net yards per attempt? sacks? outside of not taking a lot of sacks (which is good obv), sage wasn't anything special in the passing dept. that is a big red flag to me given the weapons at his disposal


i think the notion of sage being so much better than tj is just a mentality of "the grass always being greener." you see the guy make some good throws and think how the offense would be so much better w/a qb like that, but you completely ignore what the guy is bad at and the fact that he is throwing to the best wr in the nfl. i know what you all say jackson is bad at; what do you think sage is good at?

oh, i've never said sage is good. to me he's just unknown. i have to suspect he's at least a little better than TJ since TJ is among the worst i've ever seen, but i really don't know. he could be just as bad for all i know. but i can't imagine he's worse.

in his defense, TJ did have like 2 really good games last year. it's just that they were so out of the blue and so far from every other game of his career that i'm pretty pessimistic about him ever having another one. and really, they weren't THAT good. it was just like, "wow, TJ didn't screw up this game and managed to luckbox into like 230 yds and 2 TDs. awesome"

So actual scouts have a proven mathematical formula to back up their claims, or are those just opinions that they "think" too? Please share.

its funny how the most important thing of all here never gets mentioned about favre: the jets basically had to run a college level offense because 40 yr old qbs cannot learn an entire new playbook, especially when the guy likes to skip at least half of training camp

with the vikes, its a nearly identical offense to what hes been playing in his whole career. for this reason i expect him to be significantly better with the vikes than last year. i should make it clear that i dont think favre played very well at all last season, if even above average. he had 2 games of actually good play (@ NE, @ Ten) and a stat padding game (vs AZ) which was more to do with a great gameplan/playcalling than favres play. it'll be interesting to see how the vikings inferior receivers effects him

TJack isn't really helping us get any extra trade value tonight..

Shiancoe will be one of the best TE's in the NFL in a year or two

The O line was dreadful while Favre was playing. Not good.

Harvin is going to be very good imo.

Nice awareness shown by TJ throwing that ball 5 yards past the line of scrimmage At least he might have increased his trade value by completing some passes.

Last night's game provides one of the easiest levels in history

I'm glad to see no one has jumped on it yet

If Favre had been in TC I'd be really excited, but I think it's gonna take a lot of time for him to get on a comfortable level with his WRs.

Yay http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/traini...ory?id=4424660

shocking

how is the vikings depth along the d-line

Even though this schism talk is probably a case of ESPN making up the news so they'll have something to talk about, I heartily approve. Favre's Viking saga is a beautiful thing so far if you're hoping for a trainwreck. Transparent ploy to skip training camp, Chilly acts as his limo driver and man-servant to woo him, Favre sucks in the first preseason game, now there's a "schism"... Excellent work Favre! Gotta give Chilly some credit too.

http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/...7PQLanchO7DiUr

lol espn manufactured news schisments


and yeah, if there was really anything to this, awesome! More reasons to fire Chilly.

you honestly believe that favre has the backing of the majority of the locker room

Who cares? It's not Survivor; nobody's gonna get voted off the island (until the offseason). Until the Vikings are 2-6 halfway through the season, it's all just wild speculation and rumor.

That is all.

You forgot this one:


Exactly. Did ESPN do a story about what the other players thought when they benched TJ last year? No one gave a rats ass because Frerotte was not a future hall of famer.

& as I've been saying all along, if Favre plays like **** & the Vikes lose, its all Chilly's fault.

One entertaining possible scenario: assume Favre is sucking bad, but not injured. Is Chilly going to have the guts to bench him, ending his consecutive games streak?? lololol THAT would make for an interesting story!


edit - I don't see how anyone who loves the Vikes can not be excited about the various possibilities we have here. This is the most I've been excited about them since 98.

you basically proved my point. favre is a very polarizing figure at this stage. problems in the jets locker room were also just "wild speculation." you cannot expect favre to walk into a team and be handed the reins like this and have everyone on the team be on board; it's just not reasonable. whether that has an impact on the field is another issue, but it can't help

Favre will have to suck really bad for several games before Chilly would dare bench him. And then as soon as he gets benched, he'll retire again. I can't wait for the following press conference: "I came here with one goal, to win a championship. It has become clear to me now that the Vikings organization has no interest in winning a championship. So it's time for me to retire. My true fans will understand."

Easiest $12 million ever.

All I can say is bring it all on! No matter what happens, Viking fans should win in the long run.

Favre is going to play the whole 1st half on Monday night. I hope the o-line allows him a bit of time this week.

Either he wins and we are happy or Childress is out and we are happy, win win!